What made me quit
I was working for a company (name omitted on purpose) that was (and is) still running on really old technology. Perl, ...
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Not sure about UK, but in the US you would've been sued up and down if you'd try to use your software as competition especially within just months of leaving. On top of potentially losing everything you own, you might have ended up having to fork over the code you made for free. Companies in the US have you sign NDAs, IP, and No Compete contracts that would be very hard to argue in court that you did not use knowledge you gained while at the company to create your project. Still, good for you that it worked out. I just wouldn't want other people getting this idea in their heads without understanding that it would likely blow up in their faces.
Never signed anything 😉
Yeah, in the US, even without signing something, it could fall under a trade secrets clause, which isn't specific to technology. It's just a warning to people that in general something like this is likely to come off as hostile. If you're in a dead-end job, leave on your own terms (be it freelance or a new job), but not with the goal of leveraging your former employer.
Huh. Seems like in the US it’s a little bit more strict then
Certainly, in general, employees get the short-end of the stick in on a lot of issues that larger corporations are able to weasel around, but in this case, you have to ask yourself, "Would you have built this if you hadn't worked there?", "Were some of your features based on what you worked on?", "Were some ideas for execution uniquely representative of the company's product?" Not specific to yours since I have no idea, but in a lot of cases, it's fair to say that a company's investment in their product should have some protections from rogue ex-employees, and drawing the line between intentions can get pretty gray in court especially if you're going to be standing opposite a team of lawyers.
At the end they’re happy that I provide them with a solution they need. I’d not consider myself a rogue. Especially because I wouldn’t have published it if they’d have refused.
I’m on excellent term with my former boss. Nobody is mad.
Yes, I understand. I did my best to indicate that I was not speaking about your specific situation/experience. Sorry if it came across that way; I just wanted to make those points because people see the post title and go "aha, I can do that too", and odds are it's not going to go down for them like it did for you. I think the more important message in your post is finding the courage to leave a job, investing in self-training if necessary, and looking towards the future.
You’re right. I should add this to the article
Added an explanation of that in the article 👍
That must've been a great feeling to recreate the company's entire stack in just a few (unpaid) months. That's incredible, albeit one of the greatest power moves I have ever heard about!
Thanks for your kind words. Yes, it is a great feeling replicating a company's entire stack in a few months. However, the software is not all that extensive. It's just a lot of legacy code where probably half is for the trash can, and the rest is obsolete, and code desperately trying to satisfy clients (event though there is not enough workforce for it)
Very inspiring story Marc, I hope I can take a leap of faith just like you did someday. Congratulations!
Thank you Lucas. I hope you get the chance to take your leap of faith. Believe in yourself, and the rest will come naturally.
Hello, I want you to know when you were learning new tech stack, what kind of project you build for sharpen your skill. I also want to know what tech stack you choose for your software and why you choose them.
Thank you for sharing. Your story is so inspiring 😉 👍
I learned on Udemy. They have amazing courses. I always just picked the best rated.
Nice article Marc! It you have more guts than many to leave a stead income to expand and continue your skills. Some might call you crazy, I call you inspiring! Keep it up. I hope you find the role you can be excited about.
Thanks for those amazing words, David 🤩
Very risky move your, especially because of all that uncertainty, but definitely an inspiring story! It made me think of all those indie game developers (or indie developers in general)... all those devs who work on ideas for months or years and have no certainties if they will make any euro out of that.
Thank you for sharing this, and good job 👍
Wow, impressive. What about now? Are they happy with the new code?
Thanks Laurent. I'm now in the "1 months making adjustments and teaching the dev team how to operate the new stack". But they seem very satisfied with the result. I can't wait to see it in production with real clients using it.
that's really awesome, good luck then!
Thanks 🤩
Hey Marc,
This is a great story. You are tough. Very motivating.
Hi, good story.
Whilst I can't put a legal perspective across, being UK based. My understanding is unless you stole the exact source code, you wouldn't be liable. Even if you did "borrow" certain elements of source code, if the end product was different I don't know what they could do. There are some very obvious reasons why this is true. I am not a lawyer so don't take this legally.
First, you cannot patent an idea. Indeed, patenting software is more to do with devices. Sure, patent wars are ongoing with mobile providers but that proves the point in case.
You can protect intellectual property, but if another company came up with exactly the same business model and almost identical looking software, I still don't know how much you can do about it. Why can't Microsoft get rid of Open Office? I am not saying they have tried, but open source developers can get found.
You can protect branding and content through copyright/trademarking.
It could be your employment contract restricts you undertaking/creating similar products, but this is something all employees should review before signing any contract. You have to protect yourself. The chances are, as you build domain knowledge, you may end up working in similar companies. Why let yourself get denied that opportunity?
Often, your style of coding is enough to cause a seeming clash with other code bases you may have worked on. I am almost convinced I will have written the exact same framework code for different clients. Think in terms of an infinite amount of monkeys writing Shakespeare.
Sometimes, often, for framework type stuff, I will give my code to employers. It just saves time. This in itself could appear that you have code which your employer has.
Finally, it happens to be, that in many industries, many companies are all solving the same problem at the same time. In finance, many banks are having to adopt regulation at the same time. So there becomes quite a high chance, companies could have similar code without ever having exchanged ideas.
Normally, my clients has strong restrictions on data for compliance purposes. This doesn't mean, that sometimes, I won't work on technical ideas at home, write code and then give it to my client. When deadlines are tight, I have done this. Never use their data, but simply creating a plugin, like a data adaptor.
None of the above doesn't mean an employer won't try to sue you, or some ambulance chasing lawyer won't take the case on.
I think the points people made about being careful, are very wise. It is unfortunate so many people have to restrict themselves so much just to get work.
Inspiring story Marc! I'm currently learning lots of new things outside of my job as I have the same urge as you! I want to create awesome things with the cool technologies that we have. I can't quite leave my job yet, but I'm committed to making it work with the time that I have outside of the job.
Keep on going. Investment in yourself is the best bet you can make. Good luck 💪
That's amazing, congratulations! I went through something similar, taking that leap of faith to start working independently was scary at first, but turned out to be the best decision of my career.
Are you still working on that product?
Yes. I’m adding the final touches before spending time with the dev team to teach them how the code base works
bad ass!
Well, thank you Lizzie! Much appreciated 😊
I've created something of an app too for my previous workplace and I'm not sure how should I price it. How do you come up with that number?
I counted roughly the hours I spent on it and multiplied it by my desired hourly rate.
Nice article Marc, very inspiring. I am currently fighting with the confusion in my head on what direction to go in at present, so this was great to read. Thanks for contributing.
Thank Bill. With what confusion are you fighting exactly? Is there something I can try to bring some perspective to? I'm glad to listen and give advice if I can.
Well, I too am depended on. The company I work at gave me my first job and started my career. This makes it really tough for me to justify in my head that I should walk away and do my own thing, even though at the same time it feels like that is what I should do.
They gave me a job when I needed one too. I adapted a lead role very quickly and designed most of the newer modules on the stack. BUT: I also contributed a lot during the years. They went from 5 digits in utilities to 7 digits in the time I were there. Obviously not saying that it was all because of me. But I’d like to think I added to that.
Also, I gave them a 6 months notice. And already mentioned that I wanted to leave a year before. They had time to prepare.
And even if you made friends there: It’s still business. You need to invest in yourself. I know that’s hard. I battled with my decision a lot. And I got offered a lot of very tempting offers to stay. But at the end, I knew what I wanted for myself. And it was probably the best decision I could have made.
If you feel “guilty” for letting down the company: Give them plenty of time ahead to plan your departure. Also, you can offer yourself to keep working on a freelance basis if they need for for important things.
They will (at least should) be happy for your decision to follow what you want.
Congratulations
Many thanks 🤗
Two words:
Inspiring.
Followed ✔️.
Happy to have inspired you, Theo 🤗
Avoid these gifs! annoying a lot! that I can't read your article focused
Noted! I tried something new, adding the gifs. Thanks for the feedback
This is the exact sort of content I needed before starting a brief employment break soon.
Best of luck on your journey, Johanna 😊
Nice gamble. I have been in similar position. Quiting former job to learn the new tech (Angular and Node). Good work
That was a well-written and fantastically inspiring story. Thanks for sharing.