Relicans host, Pachi Parra talks to creator and maintainer Bekah Hawrot Weigel of VirtualCoffeeIO about the importance of leaning on others during learning, listening to your body: (Rest and recharge!), and letting others help hold you up during these days of Pandemic-life and the trauma, strife, and grief we are all suffering globally, collectively.

Should you find a burning need to share your thoughts or rants about the show, please spray them at devrel@newrelic.com. While you're going to all the trouble of shipping us some bytes, please consider taking a moment to let us know what you'd like to hear on the show in the future. Despite the all-caps flaming you will receive in response, please know that we are sincerely interested in your feedback; we aim to appease. Follow us on the Twitters: @LaunchiesShow.

Jonan Scheffler: Hello and welcome to Launchies, proudly brought to you by New Relic's developer relations team, The Relicans. The Launchies podcast is about supporting new developers and telling their stories and helping you make the next step in what we certainly hope is a very long and healthy career in software. You can find the show notes for this episode along with all of The Relicans podcasts on developer.newrelic.com/podcasts. We're so glad you're here. Enjoy the show.

Pachi Parra: Hello and welcome to Launchies, a podcast for newbies, developers with non-traditional backgrounds, and career-switchers. I'm Pachi, a DevRel engineer at New Relic, and I'll be your host for today's show. And today, I have here with me Bekah. Bekah is a bootcamp graduate, and she's also the founder of Virtual Coffee, an awesome developer community. And she did all that while raising four kids, not one, not two, but four kids. I don't know how, but that just tells you that she is awesome. Welcome, Bekah.

Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hey, it's so good to be here. Thanks for having me.

Pachi: So I always like to start with this question. It's such a simple question, but everyone has such a different answer to it. When did you first get interested in tech, and when did you actually realize that you could work with tech? Because you usually find people like, in high school, they get into tech for something, and then they just drop it, especially women. And then years later, they're like, hey, I can work with that. So, how was that for you?

Bekah: So, for me, I was never really what I would consider a techie person. I remember as a kid there weren't that many computer stores because when I was growing up, computers were just becoming a thing that people had in their house. And with my dad, we would drive 45 minutes to go to CompUSA, and I'd be like, "Oh no, not again, not CompUSA."

Pachi: [chuckles]

Bekah: And so I would go to the dress store while my dad and my brothers looked at computer games, and that was consistent for me. I learned how to use Word and how to create documents. But I went to school and I have an undergraduate degree and a master's degree in English. And I taught for...I think I had taught for eight years when I had my fourth child. And when I was having her, I had birth trauma, and so two of my organs ruptured into each other.

Pachi: Oh.

Bekah: And I knew something was wrong, and the doctor told me that I was fine. "Sometimes moms of four have these symptoms." Repeatedly, every person that came in the room, we asked what was going on and nobody had an answer. And so then I went home, and my mom called somebody who was an OBGYN who she went to high school with. And they got me in and figured out that I had this...I think it was a 50-cent piece size hole that was connected by...it's called a fistula. So it makes a tunnel between two organs.

Pachi: Oh God.

Bekah: So a month later, I had that fixed, which was pretty major surgery after surgery. I had a morphine pump, and they didn't cap it properly. So I overdosed on morphine, and they had to give me Narcan, which was the most awful experience of my life. But this all connects to it because that is to say that after I came home, I was suffering some major mental health challenges. So I had depression. I was later diagnosed with PTSD. It took me a year to get diagnosed with that because I just thought all of these things cycling in my head were normal. And I started having panic attacks, which I had never had before. And my husband is an engineer and he said, "You should learn how to code." And I'm like, "I've got four kids, and I can barely think straight. What are you saying to me right now?" But he kept saying it, and he kept saying it. And finally, I was like, "Okay, fine. If you shut up, I will do freeCodecamp for a little bit." And so I did. But the thing about it was I had these thoughts cycling in my head probably thousands of times a day. And when I started coding, they stopped. So it became a real therapy.

Pachi: Wow.

Bekah: My brain focused on this new thing in front of me. And I finally had relief for the first time in over a year. So I started tweeting about it and found some other moms. I found a mom's coding group that was really supportive, and I just kept finding more support. And I had been teaching at a college part-time, and part-time college instructors just don't really have much support or community. Nobody knew my name, and I had been teaching there for eight years.

Pachi: That's so sad.

Bekah: Yeah. So having a community and having people cheer you on, I was like, oh, this feels good. So I eventually got a scholarship to Flatiron School. And I did their self-paced bootcamp, which took me about a year. And then that's when I put out my tweet that I was looking for a job. I did not feel ready in any way, shape, or form. My husband said, "Nobody feels ready." And I landed a job off of that tweet. And what a difference it made because it is one of the most supportive jobs that I've ever had. So I think it took me a solid eight months to feel like maybe I could do this. But that seems pretty normal for people, I think.

Pachi: Yeah. I think nobody can ever feel ready. It's like, what is ready, right? And every time you think you know what you're doing, you look at a job ad that has a totally different skill set than what you know. And often, people ask me, "Hey, when should I send resumes?" And I'm like, "Just send it." At the end of the day, the recruiters are going to know if you're good or not. That's not your job. Your job is just to send it. You're going to get lots of nos, but eventually, you're going to get that one, yes and that's all you need. And it's good because while you're getting feedback, you know where to focus on to be more competitive in the market.

Bekah: Yeah, absolutely.

Pachi: So you said you sent out a tweet. How was the interview process to get the job?

Bekah: There was no interview process, really. It was a conversation, which makes it the best interview process. So we had a conversation about what I had done. I think he had maybe looked at my portfolio site and saw what I had experience with. We talked about that and basically, it was like, well, if you're interested in working with me, then just let me know. And so I am an independent contractor, but I've been working for the same person for the entirety of my career, which is nice because it gives me the flexibility that I want and need with four kids and trying to make sure that I can do all of the things that I want to be able to do. And it's provided a lot of great growth, and mentorship and support in ways that I didn't even imagine were possible.

Pachi: That's why I feel it's so important to just get the first job as soon as you can because there's so much that you're never going to learn in college or in a bootcamp. You're just like, doing. It's too much from the coding to the process to the workflow that you just won't get it by yourself.

Bekah: Yeah, absolutely.

Pachi: How long have you been there now?

Bekah: Two years. So I lost my job briefly...well, for a couple of months during COVID. So the day I had to go pick up my kids' stuff from school because it was shutting down, I came home to find out that I lost my job too.

Pachi: That was not a great day.

Bekah: Like for so many of us, everything just went on pause for a while. And so then I found myself really interviewing for the first time ever with four kids at home who I was supposed to be supporting through this online schoolwork that nobody anticipated. So it was a really intense journey. And I just kept thinking like; people would say, "Well, what do you want? What do you want?" And I'm like, "Well, I just want to go back to what I was doing before because I liked it, and I liked who I was working with." And that makes a huge difference. There's always this talk about like, well, what company do you want to work for? What tech stack do you want to work for? And for me, it's about the people I work with. And can I work for them, and are they supportive? Can I communicate with them? Because not all job environments provide good, safe spaces for you to learn and grow. So for me, I wanted to get back to that, and I was able to, so I'm very happy that happened.

Pachi: Yeah, it makes a huge difference. Any technology you can learn if you need to, but it's helpful having people that really support you and let you take your time to learn and help you, especially when you're starting. I feel like so many people are afraid to ask questions when they're learning, and part of that is because some people just don't want to answer those questions. So having a team that is there for you makes a huge difference.

Bekah: Yeah. I'm listening to this book right now called Ultralearning, and it's really interesting. I think it's a great book for people who are learning new tech skills, not everything in there so far has been doable, but they highlight some really important points I think. And one of them is...I don't think he uses the word psychological safety, but if you are in a stressful situation, that will impede your ability to learn; it's a fact. It's not just something that might happen to someone. But if you have a lot of stress in your life, it will take you longer to learn things. And I think that a lot of people are hard on themselves who are in stressful situations. And they're like, "I'm not learning as fast as this other person." But your brain is really being taxed with these other issues that you're facing in your life. And so it's really important not to compare yourself to someone else but also recognize that full mind and body wellness puts you in the perfect situation, and none of us have that perfect situation to be able to learn things most of the time.

Pachi: Yes. And everybody has a different life going on. You cannot know just by looking at people how stressful things are. And especially in the beginning, it's very easy to compare yourself with other people, but it just makes you more stressed. [laughs]

Bekah: [laughs] Yeah.

Pachi: So just let it go and do things in your own time. And some days are better than other days. Some days I just cannot function, [chuckles] and I understand that it is okay when I cannot function. Don't fight it because it is just the worst. And usually, the following day, I can make up for it.

Bekah: Yeah. I think there's always this tendency for people to say, "Just push through it." And I have that mindset a lot of the times. This morning I wanted to go do my workout, but I just woke up, and my body was totally exhausted with a lot of the things I've been facing lately. I knew, you know what? It's better for me to go back to sleep than to go do my workout because my body is giving me a sign. It is telling me you need to slow down. And this is what's going to help you get back to where you need to be. But if you just continually tax yourself, then you're not going to get back to where you need to be.

Pachi: And then, in the end, it's just worse. Especially it is very common for people to ignore mental exhaustion. And that just tasks you so heavily in the end because it's your feelings, your mind, and your body. Your body is like, okay, you're not listening to your brain, so now I'm just going to shut down. And yes, you cannot do anything. And if you get sick, you just can't work.

Bekah: I can't remember what it's called, but there's this thing that happens when people are facing a lot of stress where your body doesn't give you symptoms of stress because it's trying to...it's in like fight or flight mode. And so, rather than allowing you to feel sick at this part of the time that's very stressful, it feels like this is a dangerous situation. I have to get you through this. But once you come out of that stress cycle, then you get sick. And so a lot of people think following stress they get sick but really what may have been happening all along is your body has been sick. It just hasn't been telling you because it wants you to get through it. But then it finally gives you the signal like, okay, you're through this. I know about this because this has happened to me. [chuckles]

Pachi: That literally happened to me last month. So just listening to you say that, I'm like, okay, that makes so much sense [laughs] That just happened. Especially when you have to hold things back because sometimes it's like no, you have to hold some things and take time. But still, the stress is just building up. So when you let it go overboard, the stress just adds up.

Bekah: Absolutely. And I was having these small muscle spasms all over my body the other day. I was like, oh, I don't know. I've not been eating so well; maybe that's it. And it finally hit me. I've already done this before. The last time I went to the doctor, they're like, it is a stress response. Oh, okay. My body is letting me know. It's a sign. It is talking to me because I'm too hard-headed to slow down.

Pachi: Yeah, our bodies are pretty smart. We should just listen [laughs] to them.

Bekah: Yap.

Pachi: So yes, a tip to remember today is to listen to your body. You'll be better. You'll learn better. You'll live better if you do that. I know some people who just have to work because they feel like they have to compensate for something. And these people are sick so often, and they don't know why. And it's like, I know why, but you're not listening to your body. [chuckles] You just keep going. And talking about stress, I feel like last year...it is still going on, right? Everybody has collective stress. Everybody dealt with the pandemic in a different way. But everybody got stressed or was just stressed at some point. And I don't think that is going away. People say we are in the post-pandemic right now. I don't believe that. [chuckles] The other day, somebody posted, "Oh, I think I'm going to start using my mask again." I'm like, "I never stopped using my mask. What are you talking about?"

Bekah: You know, the whole thing too is there is so much anxiety about going back to work and whether or not it's safe to be around groups of people. So now, I always kind of view the pandemic as a global trauma. We're all going through this trauma together because it's this experience that shifted everything we knew. And now we're going back to a new round of trauma with things opening up, and you have to make these really hard decisions. And so it's not over. We just need to anticipate that there's going to be a lot of stress, an effect on ourselves and productivity. You hear all of these companies with their…

Pachi: And everybody is a guinea pig in this moment. [laughs]

Bekah: Yeah, cut ourselves some slack, I guess.

Pachi: Yes, like if you can work for a company that understands the moments we're living in, like, I never want to work in an office, like, never again. So I know that last year when you started Virtual Coffee, it was more or less when the pandemic started, right? Do you want to talk about that?

Bekah: Sure. So like I mentioned before, I lost my job, and I came home. I was interviewing for the first time with kids at home. And this is just an entirely new experience while I have all of these other stressors on my plate. And I was just crying every single night. I used to not be a crier, and now I just cry all the time. [chuckles] I've just leaned into it.

Pachi: No judgment.

Bekah: But it finally hit me after a while that I'm not the only person that feels this way. I see people on Twitter talking about these things, and I'm going to see if anybody wants to meet up for Virtual Coffee. And so I just put out a tweet, and people just kept wanting to meet. So first, it was once a week. And then people from the West Coast were like, "Well, we want to come too." So I was like, twice a week. There was one point I was doing it twice in one day, and I felt like...I'm an introvert; double sessions of Virtual Coffee is very, very intense.

Pachi: I'm going to be napping for an hour after this podcast, so I hear you. [chuckles]

Bekah: Then it just turned into this whole thing, and during Hacktoberfest…So Virtual Coffee is a community of developers at all stages. And that's been the really great part of it because we get to see people who are just learning. We have people who are running companies or CTOs, senior software engineers, lots of different backgrounds, a lot of different diversity in many different ways. And we really focus on supporting and mentoring each other. And when I really saw this solidified…because I thought the pandemic will be over, and then we will be done. And then, we did this Hacktoberfest event, which was a big event for us because we were a small team of volunteers. But I think we supported between 20 and 30 people, a lot of them getting their first PRs merged into open-source projects. And Dan Ott, who I work with, built an entirely new website and an issue for everyone that we could all work on together to decrease the barriers into open source.

And then, we had mentors for our maintainers and for our contributors. And everybody was so excited after that. And I thought, okay, this is a thing that we're going to keep doing. And here we are over a year later. And we've got a lot of stuff going on and so many great and supportive members that it really, really helped me navigate the challenges of the pandemic to know that there was somebody in my corner and not just talking about tech. We know each other's families and things, and some of us have met in real life now. And it's just this really; I don't know, it's my happy place. It's a great place to be.

Pachi: Yes. I think community is so important, especially in tech. I feel like tech is the thing that's so hard to explain to our friends outside of tech what we do. [laughs] The other day, my mom was like, "Are you working?" "I am working." "Oh, but I thought you just stream and talk to people in the chat." I'm like, "No, that is not all that I do, mom; thank you very much." But just having the people even if you don't...I know I program, I don't know, in Java, and you do JavaScript. They are different stacks, but you understand if I say, "Hey, this bug is killing me." And if I say that to my mom, she will think I have lost it. And just having people that really understand because tech is just a different industry, especially for people that are starting. Like, the first step is the hardest, and it's so easy to give up. And there is the whole thing about as a woman; you just don't have this much space. So having a group of people that really get you, like having this safe place that you've built, makes such a huge difference.

Bekah: Yeah, absolutely. You can grow so much more when you are surrounded by a supportive environment, and you know that you can ask questions. Nobody is going to say anything that's not nice or put you down for not knowing something. They're all there to help you. And in the remote work world, too, it can be really hard to have a sense of community because you're not around people. There's not a water cooler that you can just...I mean, are there really water coolers anymore? [chuckles] But the point is you don't see these people day-to-day.

Pachi: Yes. I have a coworker that always asks anybody that we meet in calls how tall they are because I don't know if they have a body. [laughs] I don't know. And that's funny because I have no idea. I'm looking at you and, I don't know, I think you're short. You just guess. And you meet in person, and you're like, hey, you. [chuckles] We lost part of ourselves online. It's funny.

Bekah: I'm 5 '1 and three-quarters. I keep that three-quarters because when you're that short, you just want to get all that you can. But when we get back to conferences and things like that, it is funny how you think of people in your mind that you've met online, and then they're not at all the same because you see their full body.

Pachi: Right? Like, hey, you have a body. I thought you were just a floating head.

Bekah: [chuckles]

Pachi: And it's really funny. And I know that you say you are an introvert. I'm an introvert too. I'm very comfortable in the internet. Like people always say, "Are you an introvert? How are you introverted?" Yes, but in person, it's a whole different thing. And I know that I have been speaking. Have you ever spoken in a physical conference or just online so far?

Bekah: I've spoken in a physical conference too.

Pachi: How was that?

Bekah: A lot of it depends on how the conference is, the atmosphere, I think, because I've attended physical conferences too. And I think it's actually harder for me to attend physical conferences because at least when I'm speaking, I know who I am in that moment. So I am a speaker here, and I can talk about being a speaker. So I don't have to think about what else I'm supposed to talk about or how I fit into this group of people.

So I don't know if it's a performative aspect or what, but it gives me a little bit more confidence to go in and work through that. But being at a conference, I've been to a couple of others not as a speaker, and some of them were really good if the conference organizers did a good job of making sure that it was a welcoming space. But for other conferences that didn't focus on making sure that there was community being built at the conference, it was a really, really hard space for me to be in. And I was very exhausted by the time I left there because I just felt like, I don't know, I never could really understand where I was there, and that just becomes more exhausting. And I think knowing your limits. I also thought that initially, you have to go to every talk, like, you shouldn't skip a talk. You shouldn't go back to your room. And then I learned that that's not true. If you're tired, you can go back to your hotel room and take a break. [chuckles]

Pachi: Yes, taking a break is always a good thing. Sometimes I'm just like, it's not like I don't like people or I don't like what I'm doing. It's just my body is like, hey, it's too many people. You have to take a break. And that is fine. We are starting going back to conferences this September, and I have been to a few. But I was just alone, and now I'm going as part of the job. So I'm going to have to be more active on that. And I'm just like, okay. And I just talked to a co-worker, and I'm like, "Okay, if it gets too much for us, we're going to go hide, right?" "Yes. We're going to do that." [chuckles] And that's fine because you have to perform, especially when it has to do with people, you're performing. You cannot be 100% happy all the time. And that is exhausting. Sometimes you have to take a break. Some people thrive on that, and I'm jealous of you. You feel like that, but I don't. [chuckles] And I need naps or at least to sit down and do nothing for a good half an hour.

Bekah: Yeah. And I think that that should be more something that we talk about. It is okay to do these things, to take breaks, to not look like all these expectations. And I think that hopefully, out of all of the things that have happened, more companies will be receptive to there are different ways to work. And there are different times for productivity, and there are times for rest that need to be built in for you to do the things that you can do in the best that you can do it. And so I think, I hope, that in the next five years we will really see the companies that are doing that well will get further in what they're doing.

Pachi: Yes, because if you're giving the employees space to just work when they work best, they're going to be happier and more productive. Like, I just work better in the morning. So I just try to get everything I have to get done in the day in the morning because I know that sometimes I might just crash after 2:00 p.m. [chuckles] So if I can get things done in the morning, that's great. And I try to do everything else. And just have boundaries. That's the thing about working at home that you can get lost with schedules. So I have this thing that I don't schedule anything after 5:00 if I can help it because if I do, I know that is just going to get past my time, and I'm going to pay for it later.

Bekah: Yeah. Anybody who has been on a Zoom call with me after 7:00 p.m. knows that there's a very different Bekah that comes out at night and when my Adderall has worn off.

Pachi: [laughs] Yes, I feel you. I'm not the same person. I'm all bubbly and energetic in the morning. In the afternoon, I'm like, sigh, I'm alive. So, how many members do you have on Virtual Coffee now?

Bekah: We have about 400 members in Slack, and that's our judge of how many members we have. So to become a part of Virtual Coffee, you have to come to one of our Tuesday or Thursday coffee sessions first. It just allows us to set the stage for who we are and to let people see whether or not this is an environment they want to come in and out of. So I think that right now we have 400 members in there. I think probably of the 400 there; there are 250 active members if we're looking at our orbit model. But also, I can't remember how we set up what an active member is, so, yeah. And then on the meeting page, where people currently sign up, we're reaching close to 1,000 people that have signed up at some point, which to me is just mind-blowing, and I just still can't wrap my head around that.

Pachi: And it just creates such a great space for people, like, safe, especially with the pandemic and now people having to deal with working from home. And for some people, that wasn't a huge change because, like me, I was always online, so no biggie. And that's what I think is so ironic here because when you are an introvert in the regular world, people are like, "Why can't you just go out, or why can't you stay out?" And then, when the pandemic started, you see all these extroverts just freaking out. Like, hey, I had to stay home for two weeks. Yes, that's how we feel when you ask us to go out over the weekend. [laughs] So I thought that's so funny how it just really made it clear how the world is built for extroverts, and introverts just have to deal with it. They just have to roll with that, and if you're not, you're anti-social, and you don't like people.

Bekah: Not in the same way anyway. It is interesting how different it is socializing online versus in person. I don't quite understand why it feels different to me.

Pachi: Yeah, I feel like there is a little barrier. I'm here, I'm talking to you, but you're not here.

Bekah: Yeah. You can shut off your camera if you want. [laughs]

Pachi: Yeah. If I feel very uncomfortable, in a second, I can just run away and turn the video off so just like that [laughs] And you cannot judge me. You cannot even see what I'm wearing. And I'm home, and I have a cat lying on my table. So I know not everybody is like this, but I feel much more comfortable online than if were in person. I didn't have as many great people before the pandemic as I have now. I have a huge community, so maybe that was a part of it. So I'm like, maybe when I go to conferences now, I'm going to have people that I really like, and I care about, and it would be a bit easier. But we're going to see. Are there any conferences that you are excited about?

Bekah: There are some that I am interested in going to. But I think I'm going to go...My husband is speaking at KCDC, Kansas City Developer Conference in August or September. And I'm excited to go because there'll be a handful of Virtual Coffee people there, so I'll get to meet them in real life. But I don't know. I think it's going to be interesting how things play out. We're still transitioning, and I know some places are doing hybrid conferences. And that seems like a whole new thing that we have to wrap our heads around, too. I really was excited for Chain React, which Infinite Red puts on every year, but they're skipping this year. And I think they're going to plan for the next year just because there's such a saturated market. Even people are unsure still. So next summer, when Chain React comes around, I very much hope to be there.

Pachi: Yeah, I think next summer things are going to be...not normal. I don't think there's a normal anymore. I think we're going to have a new normal. But it's going to be more open. I don't know, we shall see. I love all the mystery we have about the future; we don't know [chuckles] just keep living. And how did you cope, especially after you got your job back and you're running Virtual Coffee and your four kids at home? How are you doing that? [laughs]

Bekah: Not well, I don't know. Everyone's like, well, how do you balance it? I'm like, I don't. I just don't do a really good job. And you always just have to figure it out. And some people are really good about figuring things out and being ordered and scheduled. And when my kids are in school, it's much easier because I know I have a solid six hours of quiet time. So for me, it's trying to maintain healthy habits, although sometimes that doesn't happen. I need to get my workout in frequently just because that's how I relieve stress. But there was one point at the beginning of the pandemic I had to go see a doctor because my back was hurting. He said, "You're working out so much. You probably broke your back." And I was like…

Pachi: Oh.

Bekah: I didn't, luckily, but it was a real wake-up call to like, hey, there's this thing called moderation, and it is good for us, for me.

Pachi: The balance of life.

Bekah: So for me, it's consistently just trying to do my best and then evaluate like, okay, how can I do a better job, or how was I disappointed with myself last week? And I do a lot of scheduling. Sundays, I get my planner out, schedule of all the things. I take a look at it and try and stick to that because if I at least write it down, then I seem to at least have the satisfaction of I have checked these boxes off. But also, just talking about it when I'm having a hard time makes a huge difference. And now I have all these friends now that are okay with me talking about me having a bad day. I was really having a rough day yesterday, and somebody in Virtual Coffee messaged me. And she's like, "I just want to check on you and see if you're okay."

Pachi: Aww.

Bekah: She gave me a pep talk, and that made a big difference.

Pachi: Yes, I feel like we're just so used to when somebody asks, "How are you?" We just say, "I'm fine." And that is just when you're not fine. And just build a new habit of being honest. Like, normally I'm tired. "I'm sorry, I'm fine maybe, but I am tired and I cannot. And I had to let you know that because I might not be the best company right now because I'm exhausted, but I will try my best." And having people who you can really answer that question to honestly, I think it's just such a huge difference, especially because you're always afraid of bothering people.

Bekah: I can't tell you how many times this year I cried in the dairy aisle of the grocery store, and someone is like, "How are you doing?" Like, "I'm not doing well,"

Pachi: Well, I'm crying.

Bekah: Dan, who I work with, we jumped on a call…this is maybe a month ago or something. He was like, "Hey, we haven't talked in a while. I want to jump on a call," and we did. And he said, "I thought it would be good to check in because I've asked you how you're doing, and you just continue to avoid the question for the past couple of times." And I'm like, yeah, that's true. I just avoid it. [laughs] But it's nice to realize you've got someone in your corner that is there to say, "Okay, this probably needs to be a conversation," or "I recognize that something's happening here," and it's nice to have that kind of support.

Pachi: Yeah, just having people that you can just be yourself with makes a huge difference, especially you get so stressed if you cannot put it out. I cannot tell you how better my life is now that I have friends that I can just…."Hey, everything sucks, and I don't want to function today." "That's okay, no worries." And I love what you're doing on Twitter. In the beginning of the week, there is a list of what you are doing this week. And it is good for you to keep track but also for people to say, "Hey, I'm an active person, and I'm doing all this cool stuff." I think that's super cool. I would love to do that, but I forget about that. [laughs]

Bekah: I always like to do it because also, it's a good little bit of accountability. I put it out there, and now it's something that I need to work on. Or oh, I see this person is doing this thing, and I like that thing. So if they need any help or support, then they can reach out, or I'll reach out to them and let them know. And it's just a nice way to connect with people.

Pachi: I like the little community you have on Twitter, just people being supportive. I know there are lots of trolls there, but I feel like when you are authentic, you automatically filter that because people can get the essence of who you are just by reading what you write. So if they are not into that, they're just not going to follow you. And you attract people that have the same vibes with you.

Bekah: Yeah, for sure. And that's what I always tell people, too, when they're looking for jobs, and they're networking on Twitter because your network is not just the people that follow you on Twitter. It's the people that follow you and their network. And so, if you build a network of people and you are authentic in that, then there's a tendency for really positive people to follow you as well. And they're not going to recommend you to a bad job, I mean, they might accidentally, but also, you have a greater chance of having a network connection that's going to lead to a more positive result than if you just were really casting far and wide with people you don't know.

Pachi: Yeah, the job I have now is somebody that I know from Twitter only. And she was interviewing, she's like, "Okay, I'm not a good match for the job, but I think Pachi is, so go talk to Pachi." And I got it, yay. Okay, so we are approaching the end. And I always like to ask, what is your best piece of advice? And I ask for one, but you can give me as many as you want for people that are starting or considering to start in tech. What would you tell yourself back then?

Bekah: So for me, the most important thing is having community, and community has gotten me through a lot of things, including trauma. And there is a tendency, especially if you are doing a bootcamp or if you're self-learning, to feel like you are alone in that environment, that there's not somebody that can relate to you or someone that you can talk to about it, but it's not true. Sometimes you have to put yourself out there a little bit. I know that that can be scary. But when you have a community of people, those are the people that are going to support you. They're not another task that you need to do. They're not a box that you need to check off. They're the people that are going to hold you up when you feel like you can't do that anymore. They're the ones that are going to celebrate your wins with you and care for you during your losses and really be there to help you be the best version of yourself. So I think my most important advice to everybody is, find the community that fits who you are and allow yourself to be open with that community.

Pachi: That is really important, especially the community that fits you because there are so many communities out there, and sometimes you just want to belong that you go to places that maybe are not the right fit. But once you find the right place, you just feel at home with people. You just feel comfortable, and that is such a magic moment. And that's what I had for you today. Thank you so much for coming to talk to me today.

Bekah: Thanks so much for having me.

Pachi: Where can people find you on the internet?

Bekah: You can find me in many places. It’s @BekahHW. So I'll spell it B-E-K-A-H, and another H, and then a W for my name, that's on Twitter, that's on Instagram, that's on dev.to. My personal site is https://bekahhw.github.io/. That's what I use consistently for people to find me more easily.

Pachi: I am that way. I am pachicodes everywhere. It's like, hey, how do I find you? Just type pachicodes, and you're going to find me. And we're going to be linking to the Virtual Coffee in the notes so you can join.

Bekah: Yay!

Pachi: And thanks, everybody, for listening. This was Launchies for you. Subscribe and stay tuned for next week. We have a new episode every week with me or other hosts. See you. Bye.

Jonan: Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. You can find the show notes for this episode along with all of the rest of The Relicans podcasts on therelicans.com. In fact, most anything The Relicans get up to online will be on that site. We'll see you next week. Take care.