Hey everyone! Your favorite dev community ray of sunshine here! ☀️😊 I hope you're all having a fantastic week, learning and growing in ways you never imagined. If not—it's never too late to change things up!
So, I'm trying a new thing on here. I've been hosting the #CodersTeach Twitter chat for... hm... 26 weeks! (On March 26th, ha!)
#CodersTeach chats happen weekly on Tuesday nights at 8 PM EST, under the #CodersTeach hashtag!
Saron really inspired me to use my platform and steadily-increasing visibility to help others learn from each other. #CodeNewbie chats have been such an integral part of my developer growth AND community inclusion. I've met people through #CodeNewbie that have made me a better person—people who inspire me to make this industry the best it can be. ❤️
In #CodersTeach, we talk about all kinds of stuff, and we have a blast! Some of the topics so far have been:
- Lifelong learning
- Problem solving
- Learning resources, including e-Learning platforms, books, podcasts, and videos
- Learning skills and hacks
- Kids and coding
- Conference talks
- Self-discipline
- Code, of course, but language-agnostic... just conceptual! :)
So, I'm going to start doing a quick recap of what we talked about, to share participants' responses with the community. Hopefully, it provides some valuable insight into these super important topics, so enjoy and engage in the comments if you have thoughts!
This week's topic was salary negotiation.
This is such an important topic we need to be addressing as early on as possible, because there were a lot of common themes of low sense of self-worth.
It really reminded me of why I dedicated a whole week to career-based topics like this in my online course + career change coaching program for self-taught coders, 30 Days to Web Development. This shit is big. We literally leave money on the table unless we know what we're worth, and how to communicate it.
Q1.1: Have you ever negotiated a salary?
We started out with a quick poll, with some interesting results!
Out of 23 respondents,57% said they HAD negotiated a salary, and 43% said they had never negotiated a salary before.
Q1.2: What comes to mind when you think about the process of salary negotiation?
I think I have a very unique outlook on the salary negotiation process. We're just usually too nervous or uncomfortable, or lacking confidence:
A1: I'm actually kind of excited about the salary negotiation phase! It means you've already done the hard part, and now, if they're the right company for you, they're looking to find out what they can do to help keep you happy working there. #CodersTeach23:10 PM - 26 Mar 2019
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Lauren went right in 🤣🤣:
23:10 PM - 26 Mar 2019
But then made a really valid point:
@lavie_encode You dont wanna lowball yourself but also not ask for too much and get canceled out.
#CodersTeach23:22 PM - 26 Mar 2019
Some of our other responses:
&y H. Golang@andyhaskell2013
@lavie_encode A1: Haven't been in the process but what comes to mind is having to have your A game communicating your skills' market value, and the anxiety of preparing that explanation #CodersTeach23:13 PM - 26 Mar 2019
@lavie_encode A1: I've never negotiated a salary before but from what I read it is something that can be intimidating. Especially with how many places advise people on how to negotiate salary. #CodersTeach23:13 PM - 26 Mar 2019
As one of the highlights of the night, our resident Rabbi on Rails, Yechiel dropped some experience and knowledge bombs on us in this amazing thread 💣💣 Go read!
@lavie_encode A1: I've had two tech jobs and the salary negotiation was different for each. This will be a thread:
#CodersTeach23:58 PM - 26 Mar 2019
Q2: Let's play pretend!
In this question, I challenged y'all to put on your imagination caps.
You're a hiring manager. You really like a candidate, and make them an offer to join your company.
They ask to think on it, then come back with a counter-offer that's significantly higher than the initial. What do you do?
A2.2: First, I'd be super impressed because counter-offering takes guts. Especially if it's a non-male candidate. I'd ask them to show their market research. If they're prepared on the spot, I'd take the offer up the chain and see what we could work out. #CodersTeach23:28 PM - 26 Mar 2019
@lavie_encode A2: Counter offer that counter offer. Offer a median pay from the offers or more vacation time
#CodersTeach23:32 PM - 26 Mar 2019
@lavie_encode A2: From the way I understand the dynamic, HM basically expect you to negotiate so the initial offer is likely to be lower than the max they are willing to give. I assume they usually have a range they can play with, but the ultimate decision in made higher up.
#CodersTeach00:06 AM - 27 Mar 2019
@lavie_encode A2: I'd probably counter offer their offer to see how they react and see if a candidate is willing to compromise. #CodersTeach23:34 PM - 26 Mar 2019
@lavie_encode A2: I guess it really depends on the manager that I am pretending to be. Obviously, they have competing goals of hiring talent and saving money. So most won't give you the best offer 1st. If I didn't give it the 1st time, I tell them how much wiggle room there is in the budget>23:33 PM - 26 Mar 2019
Q3: If you could ask a salary negotiation expert ANYTHING, what would it be?
"No stupid questions" time! Well, it's always that time, because there are no stupid questions. They don't exist.
So, this part is particularly important. Real devs have questions, and I'd love to hear responses from some folks in the community with salary negotiation experience!
Here's what our folks are wondering, starting with me:
A3: What if your offer comes in significantly lower than market value? Or they start pushing back? Is this indicative of a greater issue I should be concerned about? (breaking my own rules with the 3Q) #CodersTeach23:49 PM - 26 Mar 2019
I was leaning toward "definite red flags, run away!", which seemed to be confirmed by others:
@lavie_encode I'm no expert but, lower than market value tends to be a red flag for me and for some reason, I actually counter higher. For me, this usually gets them to show their true colours pretty quickly. If they respond incredulously, I feel it may be a fight for every penny, every year.23:55 PM - 26 Mar 2019
@lavie_encode I would walk away if they lowball you because it's always a symptom of a bigger issue. #CodersTeach00:00 AM - 27 Mar 2019
Sarah would like some tips on negotiating salary as an introvert. This sounds like a great La Vie en Code podcast episode! 🤩
@lavie_encode A3: I'd ask for tips on negotiating salary as an introvert besides just doing research. It would be great getting tips on how an introvert might approach situations like when a hiring manager makes a counter offer during negotiation. #CodersTeach23:51 PM - 26 Mar 2019
Tori Lewis@torilewiswrites@lavie_encode A3: WHEN!? When do you negotiate your salary? How do you avoid saying the first number? #CodersTeach23:44 PM - 26 Mar 2019
23:46 PM - 26 Mar 2019
&y H. Golang@andyhaskell2013@lavie_encode A3: From my past job searches, what goes into building a case for negotiating a higher salary in a kind of work you'd never done 9-5 before? (First job search was first time coding for work, second search was first time doing a job in web and in a business) #CodersTeach23:45 PM - 26 Mar 2019
@lavie_encode A3: As a negotiating hiring manager, what would be an immediate turn off?
If you had to give advice, would you say, unless they offer the world, always make a counter offer? Do you always ask for 10% more just because, if you don't ask, you don't get?
Sorry. 3 q's😜
#CodersTeach23:44 PM - 26 Mar 2019
@lavie_encode A3: What's the best way to gauge if your asking rate is on par with comparable projects without having anybody to bounce of? #CodersTeach23:55 PM - 26 Mar 2019
Shout outs!
Here's what's going on with our #CodersTeach fam:
Yechiel is doing his first Meetup talk! 🕺🏾
@lavie_encode A4: oooohhhhh forgot to mention!
I'll be giving my first talk at a Meetup tomorrow! It's about learning how to learn.
#CodersTeach03:20 AM - 27 Mar 2019
I'm doing a giveaway for 30 Days to Web Development, my online course + career change coaching program for self-taught coders! It ends on March 31st at 11:45 PM EST, so be sure to enter!
A4: I got a shout out, and a rad one at that: I'm giving away lifetime access to 30 Days to Web Development, my online course + career coaching program for self-taught coders! Check out the deets here, ends March 31st! lven.co/giveaway #CodersTeach23:59 PM - 26 Mar 2019
Andy has a tutorial for IndexedDB in the works!
&y H. Golang@andyhaskell2013@lavie_encode A4. I'm pretty close on having a testing tutorial out on IndexedDB, hoping to have it rdy for the next #CodersTeach00:01 AM - 27 Mar 2019
Lauren wrote about her first hackathon!
00:02 AM - 27 Mar 2019
Jacob shared a dope new podcast called 2ndCareerDevs, hosted by software engineer Kyle Shevlin!
@lavie_encode @kyleshevlin has an awesome and growing podcast called @2ndCareerDevs that I think a lot of people that coming from other backgrounds should listen too as they get into coding.00:07 AM - 27 Mar 2019
Dave is building an API!
@lavie_encode Trying to write an API and going to try to test with PostMan. If all goes well, in me app she goes.23:59 PM - 26 Mar 2019
John is killing it!
@lavie_encode A4: nailed a few projects at work lately. Boom. #CodersTeach23:54 PM - 26 Mar 2019
And Jerami wrapped it all up with some BIG LOVE! 💕
@lavie_encode A4: I'm proud of really helping to grow a community of new #CodeNewbie-s that can inform, support and share with each other.
#CodersTeach00:05 AM - 27 Mar 2019
Join us for #CodersTeach chat next Tuesday at 8:00 PM EST!
Then, join us all for #CodeNewbie chat on Wednesday at 9:00 PM EST!
Top comments (5)
@yechielk 👀
He's pretty great, isn't he?
Wow, thanks for the great recap!
I know Saron makes a story out of the weekly chats, might be worth looking into how she does it, it might save you some work 😉
Sure! I'm always up to save time. But for the first one? Y'all get the royal treatment. 👑