Skip to content

re: The problem with “you guys” VIEW POST

re: community in whatever fuzzy way decides to be OK behavior LOL. Please go learn some history.

Oh, you would be more careful also in a shame-driven culture (like some of the largest ones in Asia or basically whatever was under the aegis of the catholic church), not just in communist or fascist regimens.

I still see what troubles people so much if they are collectively called "guys" just by convention: in my team (which, again, I definitely like and respect), basically everyone makes cultural references I do not get, on top of speaking a language which is not my native one (although I have been just using that for years): should I ask them to avoid mentioning anything too British for my ears or to speak in Esperanto, so that I can feel like I belong in there?

Come on, let's be realistic: harassment or discrimination are serious issues, while this paranoid campaign to make everybody thread on eggshells (I am not referring to you in particular, it is a general though) it is either useless or actually really offensive towards people who have actually experienced some kind of unfair work environment.

@giacomosorbi threads, sorry, I cannot answer you directly.

Yes, I am Russian. And I pretty fine understand all the circumstances.

But that is not what makes me fight for the freedom of everything. Well, maybe, to some extent, and I have to say “thank you” for hinting possible roots of all what I feel when I see posts like that.

What really makes me fight right now, is that I constantly dedicate a couple of hours on daily basis to damn help people on Stack Overflow. I publish a lot of free code to open source and people do indeed use it. And then I come here and I listen to claims that I am not tolerant enough or I do use “guys” in my verbal communication (I have never heard such a claim from the girls I teach and/or girls I employed.)

From the people who never did something but fighting for the getting rid of the word from the language.

[We definitely should shut up immediately until we are banned forever :)]

Glad to have provided you some food for thought :)

I am afraid somebody, probably not the OP, will remind you that you never heard complaints as you were in a position of power due to your "white privilege" (you should see how pissed an Eastern European colleague used to get when he was reminded of his privilege by people who were born with a silver spoon, quite unlike him :D ).

[I doubt I will be banned for this, but in case I will take as a badge of honour]

I honestly could not care less what stranger wants to remind me what.

Ok, I've managed to lose the thread here, but you sure assume a lot about someone you don't know. You haven't given me much credit for actually agreeing with a lot of what you say, and dong so in the text. I even included a clip from Demolition Man!

Once you toned down the useless rhetoric, you actually touch on different interesting points that proves how challenging and difficult this can be – which is frustrating, because it seems that it doesn't need to be. I haven't claimed to sit on the definitive answers, nor do I think you do, but what I think is worth thinking about is:

– What is the distinction between being offended and feeling excluded?
– How are efforts to influence, dictate or control communication experienced by people of different cultural and historical backgrounds?
– What is reasonable to expect from whom when it comes to inclusion in a tech community?
– Can we discuss how communicative actions can leave someone left out, without having to go down the rather unproductive “SJW”/partisan/whatever route?

I don't expect you to post the answers here – is just what I got from this whole ordeal.

– How are efforts to influence, dictate or control communication experienced by people of different cultural and historical backgrounds?

Perhaps, if you've acquaintances who've managed to get their way away from any of the various "regimes" out there, especially any older ladies & gents who've surcame any of the darker than usual times in such places, you might buy one of them a beer or two some time, encourage a spirit of convivial honesty, and might ask them their thoughts on this.

Couldn't hurt to ask, no?

And if you do, perhaps I'll buy you a beer sometime if I'm in Oslo.

I am pretty confident I am still entitled to say that imho that is censorship and can lead to even worse situations, in the same way you are entitled to disagree: I would never dream to censor these kind of ideas :)

I am still entitled to say that imho [...]


And +1 for imho, not that fashionable self-“esteemed” imo :)

I started to use imso for “stupid” in our internal slack.

code of conduct - report abuse