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Tiffany Wismer
Tiffany Wismer

Posted on • Edited on

How do I get experience when I have no experience?

Can anyone help me? I have had plenty of jobs but never one as a programmer. I have some skill, but no experience. The problem is this: in every job posting I see, even those purporting to be "junior" positions, they want someone with at least a year of experience. How do I get experience when I can't get a job?? Any advice / tips would be great. THANKS!

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michaelgv profile image
Mike

Hey Tiffany,

If you’re looking for experience, I’d be willing to take you on as a developer in my business to help you gain said experience. If you’re interested I’ll reply with an email address you can reach me at to discuss details!

Stack:

  • PHP
  • NodeJS (Typescript)
  • Elm (for larger production applications)
  • PostgreSQL and rethinkdb
  • AWS
  • Go and Redis

Let me know!

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tiffanywismer profile image
Tiffany Wismer

Thanks Michael! I'd love to talk. Here's my email: tkwismer@gmail.com

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michaelgv profile image
Mike

Great, I’ve sent you an email.

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abavish profile image
Vish

Hi Michael,

Would you be willing to assist me too?

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casyazmon profile image
Akap Azmon Deh-nji

Hi! am facing the same problem here. I need some help please!!

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azureowldev profile image
azureowl

Is this still going on? Is the stack for current skills or skills that will be gained from mentorship? Thank you!

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ikenshu profile image
Kevin Morales

You can try to make a website you like, dev.to, reddit, hacker news, etc. Show to this company that you know what you say, build a personal website. Maybe a tutorial and put it on GitHub, break that code. There are many ways to show experience. Clone websites are usually good.

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ben profile image
Ben Halpern

I agree. Personal projects that you devote to go along way.

When I was first trying to break in I was basically doing full-time development on a website I was treating as if it were itself a biz opportunity with deadlines etc. Just making it as polished as possible.

But one more thing:

Interview for jobs even if you feel a bit under-qualified. You're probably not. Don't disqualify yourself. That's their job.

Here's a post I wrote on this general subject:

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tiffanywismer profile image
Tiffany Wismer

Thank you Ben!

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dmerand profile image
Donald Merand

I second Ben here - definitely apply for jobs even if you feel you aren't experienced enough. I've hired people with almost zero prior coding experience for software developer positions, based on how the interview went. Good communication skills and interpersonal skills are much harder to train for than technical skills.

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tiffanywismer profile image
Tiffany Wismer

This is good to know!! Thank you!

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isprototypeofme profile image
Mark Philip D.

@Donald, I wish my manager can say this to me. :( I moved to dev department a year ago but only as someone who implements template design to WYSWG editor. I just had an appraisal few days back. I told my manager that I've learned Javascript, React, UI design and Node.js hoping that somehow they can see it fitting to our project, because I really wanted to become a full-time frontend developer - only to be told that being Technical (learning all these technologies) doesn't really help the business then proceeds saying that they already hired enough devs for their team. 💔

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dmerand profile image
Donald Merand

I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out on your first try. I'm sure that you'll be able to apply your new tech skills somehow!

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raddevon profile image
Devon Campbell

I was in a very similar situation about 5 years ago: wanting to transition into web development with 0 professional experience. I used this method to create a successful freelance practice followed by an amazing job offer for a permanent position.

  1. Build some personal projects. They don't have to be massive projects. I'd steer you away from redesigning popular web sites. Instead, focus on tightly scoped original projects.
  2. Use these projects as your portfolio to get freelance work.
  3. Use the freelance work as you professional experience to get a permanent position. On the other hand, if your freelance practice is going really well, you might just want to keep doing that.
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tmcsquared profile image
TMcSquared

Thanks for the advice on personal projects! I've started many of them but never had any gumption to finish them(mostly because they were stupid).

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z2lai profile image
z2lai

I think this is the biggest challenge for any personal project. At least I realize how stupid my ideas are before I start working on it. I think Devon has a great point though - we need to work on many small tightly scoped projects instead of one big one.

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tiffanywismer profile image
Tiffany Wismer

Great advice, thank you.

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yechielk profile image
Yechiel Kalmenson

Great suggestions on where to get some experience.

I just wanted to reiterate what @ben said.

Many times companies post a list of requirements, but not all of them are hard requirements. They are more like a "shopping list" of things the "ideal" candidate would have.

Try to read between the lines to see what it is they actually need and what's just "nice to have"s.

At the end of the day, if you aren't sure if you qualify, apply anyways and let them decide.

You will get rejected from 100% of the jobs you don't apply to.

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tiffanywismer profile image
Tiffany Wismer

Thank you, very encouraging.

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theminshew profile image
Michael Minshew

Hehe, the gretzsky would be proud I think.

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pbouillon profile image
Pierre Bouillon

Did you consider internship? Contributing to open source projects?

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ben profile image
Ben Halpern

Re: Open source. There are ways to contribute to even the most complicated projects without a high barrier, you just have to be searching for it.

For example, check out this PR I made to React:

github.com/facebook/react/pull/5287

If you contribute in non-code, just say it was "mostly documentation" and interviewers will respect your effort to be a part of the ecosystem.

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tiffanywismer profile image
Tiffany Wismer

Can I admit to being really scared to contribute to open source projects? I feel like I have no business touching someone else's code. Is this a normal fear?

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nickytonline profile image
Nick Taylor

I think it's normal. I was stressed out about my first PR. I was trying to make it perfect. It didn't end up being perfect 😁. I was also very new to git at the time. You can see my first PR to Github here. Yolo.

Even though I was very comfortable with JavaScript, I was working with technology that was very new to me at the time, Meteor. I started to contribute to this project to get out of my comfort zone and force me to learn Meteor.

If you're super stressed out about it, I can give you a hand with your first PR if you want.

Also, for those interested in seeing what their first PR was, check out firstpr.me

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ben profile image
Ben Halpern

Suuuuuuuuuper normal Tiffany.

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tiffanywismer profile image
Tiffany Wismer

Ha! Thanks. I'm glad to hear that.

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millebi profile image
Bill Miller

If you want to contribute "code" to an opensource project; add documentation of a complex example.

One of my pet peeves of so many O/S projects is that the documentation shows trivial examples that I have already figured out and nothing more concrete/complex. If you could create a more complex example and contribute that, you're doing the community a favour to help the project AND also creating something that you can easily "show off" for an employer.

Whatever you contribute becomes a good indicator of how you think and your work product as well... so a triple bonus! And while your answer to "what did you do there" is still technically "some documentation" it can be enhanced by mentioning that it was complex interation case(s) and not just simple documentation.

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jaysonesmith profile image
Jayson Smith

I wrote about contributing to open source projects in ways that aren't just code for my personal blog and published it on the Cucumber blog as well. Seems fitting for this conversation! cucumber.io/blog/2018/08/10/contri...

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itsdarrylnorris profile image
Darryl Norris

Open Source is the way to go. I should have read this before I made my comment .

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tyu1996 profile image
Brian Ting

I agree with this, even though I'm now a student.

I was once in an event that people around me who are experienced in coding. They told me try to contribute to open-source projects or create a project yourself on GitHub, make some contributions. This is your proof of experience and capability.

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nodefiend profile image
chowderhead

Hey tiffany !

3 years ago i started learning how to code.

every day after i got off my TERRIBLE admin office position a security company, I would go online and teach myself how to write in javascript, than i taught myself frameworks.

Than i started networking and meeting other people who code, not even trying during this time to land a job, just trying to focus on getting to a place where i could be confident in my own abilities .

I continued to BUILD THINGS , and as i did i got better and better.

Soon i was building small apps just for my amusement - at this point the universe placed someone in my life and i was able to , not even trying take a shot at a junior/intern position

the position didnt even pay money, they said basically we will take you on as an intern and can only pay your rent and your car note.

I quit my job and said okay im down

so initially it was never for the job / money / title .

it was just cause i wanted to do what i love

ive been writing in React/rails for 3+ years now, not only do i have an awesome job , but now i'm way better at building things.

everyones journey is different though , good luck on yours .

i believe in the law of attraction though, i feel if your going down this path, a job will come to you.

ken

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bpmct profile image
Ben Potter

Hey Tiffany,

One of the reasons I began learning programming was because of the potential to create something. There are so many free/minimal-cost resources online to learn programming, start a project, and maintain it.

I don't really know what your time situation is like, but I would recommend starting a programming project you're interested in. Maybe find a group of people like you who have the same ideas who will help maintain it. Or, get involved with somebody else's team project.

While this is mainly for game dev, teamups.net/ is a good way to find projects to hop on.

This article may help:
antrikshy.com/blog/how-i-got-start...

Best of luck,

  • Ben
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tmcsquared profile image
TMcSquared • Edited

Hey Ben, I started programming for a similar reason! Mostly I wanted to re-create what was in my math book, to be honest. xD

Also, thanks for the link! I'm looking to Game Development as a possible career, as I'm currently lead dev for the Qub3d Engine Project.

Tre'

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michaelgv profile image
Mike • Edited

michael@invocie.com - reach out to me

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iamjoross profile image
Jose Ross Barredo

can i hop on?

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xowap profile image
Rémy 🤖

As an employer, I don't see it like that. There is no requirement list per se (and I'm honest about it in my job offers, I don't put a requirements list).

There's only two things I look at:

  • Potential
  • Current level

Depending on the business constraints, I'll be needing someone able to work at an expected level within an expected amount of time.

So, regarding the technical skills, I hire the people with the most potential but within an acceptable investment threshold.

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erebos-manannan profile image
Erebos Manannán

Every job offer on the planet lists "requirements" that they don't actually require. I don't believe I've been "qualified" for a single job I've gotten if looking at their job postings.

What is sufficient "experience" for a junior level programming job generally is some sort of basic proof that you can actually do something for yourself - e.g. set up a GitHub account, put your personal projects there. The better you do those, the better chances you have of getting a decent job.

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tiffanywismer profile image
Tiffany Wismer

Thanks, very encouraging!

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erebos-manannan profile image
Erebos Manannán

Oh, and for more specific advice on what to put to those personal projects:

  • Make sure the repository is readable, has a README for what it is, how to use it, possibly a deployed demo URL hosted on GitHub Pages, or some small server on the cloud, depending on what you're working on. If it's a desktop application, provide releases for Windows + OSX.
  • Spend extra attention to code quality, good readability, maybe even a bit excessive amount of comments, great unit test coverage (and really do have unit tests whenever possible for these), if necessary use the Wiki for documentation, have API documentation set up with e.g. RAML. Do all the different kinds of things like that, that you would love for a very mature production system to have.
  • Prefer a smaller project done to the best of your abilities, even tiny, over a larger project that is substandard for you. Ability to deliver good quality is more impressive than ability to deliver a large mess.
  • If you know what company you're specifically looking to work with, make a project using the technologies they use. Check their job listings, open source repositories, etc. to find out what they use.
  • If you've got wider interests, try to make a few different kinds of projects. Again smaller with more variety is better than one larger thing in just one field you know.
  • Try to think of some kind of tool/thing that would be of actual benefit to you and implement that, you'll find it easier to get motivation to doing it and to tell people about it in interviews and such.