That's a good point, I no longer have the perspective that got me into this whole web development thing. I listen to a lot of podcasts which feature developers who have started in the last few years though, so I try to stay as in-touch as I can.
You are right, HTML and CSS are easier to teach and learn than JS. I agree that people who would hasten the demise of those technologies should be questioned about the inclusivity of their replacements.
I still don't see the harm in building apps and experiences for my customers and users that circumvent HTML and CSS authoring. I'm not creating it for the users to examine on that level. If they need to learn how to do something there will be other resources and examples of how to create parts of what I've created in my interface.
WYSIWYG development tools have always been an option that helps some people get into programming and which eventually impede and annoy those who have mastered the underlying technologies. I wanted a good WYSIWYG tool when I was starting, I loved flash for that reason. But every WYSIWYG tool I've worked with has had a "hood" you can "pop" to see what's going on, and override the instructions the tool thought you intended - I doubt future iterations will abandon that and make everything be perfectly shrink-wrapped at the browser level.
I don't think they're all bad either. And I hope that popping the hood does stick around! In fact, I hope that interaction evolves and proliferates--it's not really that far from what view source used to accomplish for beginners and what dev tool inspectors do better now with their ability to live edit. Just targeted toward creation of certain things. I kinda wish a browser vendor would take a real go at those use cases as built in dev tools. Make the browser truly both an IDE and design tool.
I'm being only as alarmist about it as I have direct reason to be, though. Coincidentally, a few weeks ago I was chatting with a developer working on a design tool project like I mentioned. I and another dev who identified himself as a designer who codes agreed much like you and I have that there's inherent value in a WYSIWYGs, but that all designers don't need to be isolated from code, that there is a virtuous cycle sort of effect in synergy between code and a GUI, and that we thought there was a lot of room for useful innovation in exploring it and bringing more people into contact with code when they have the interest. Which more people naturally will when they find it a rewarding experience because it helps them do things they want (like design) and aren't scoffed at as innately unsuited to do it. The developer involved in building this new tool argued with us for days that in no way should designers touch code. He even argued that designers weren't qualified to design new UI patterns without a front end developer like him holding their hands.
I suppose he's entitled to his opinion, but I think he's very wrong. And it's not the first time I've heard it, not even close. Like you, I've wandered from my design entry point. But due to how I've specialized I've stayed in close contact and being primarily a coder while still not an insider has given me the opportunity to catch a lot of flak.
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That's a good point, I no longer have the perspective that got me into this whole web development thing. I listen to a lot of podcasts which feature developers who have started in the last few years though, so I try to stay as in-touch as I can.
You are right, HTML and CSS are easier to teach and learn than JS. I agree that people who would hasten the demise of those technologies should be questioned about the inclusivity of their replacements.
I still don't see the harm in building apps and experiences for my customers and users that circumvent HTML and CSS authoring. I'm not creating it for the users to examine on that level. If they need to learn how to do something there will be other resources and examples of how to create parts of what I've created in my interface.
WYSIWYG development tools have always been an option that helps some people get into programming and which eventually impede and annoy those who have mastered the underlying technologies. I wanted a good WYSIWYG tool when I was starting, I loved flash for that reason. But every WYSIWYG tool I've worked with has had a "hood" you can "pop" to see what's going on, and override the instructions the tool thought you intended - I doubt future iterations will abandon that and make everything be perfectly shrink-wrapped at the browser level.
I don't think they're all bad either. And I hope that popping the hood does stick around! In fact, I hope that interaction evolves and proliferates--it's not really that far from what view source used to accomplish for beginners and what dev tool inspectors do better now with their ability to live edit. Just targeted toward creation of certain things. I kinda wish a browser vendor would take a real go at those use cases as built in dev tools. Make the browser truly both an IDE and design tool.
I'm being only as alarmist about it as I have direct reason to be, though. Coincidentally, a few weeks ago I was chatting with a developer working on a design tool project like I mentioned. I and another dev who identified himself as a designer who codes agreed much like you and I have that there's inherent value in a WYSIWYGs, but that all designers don't need to be isolated from code, that there is a virtuous cycle sort of effect in synergy between code and a GUI, and that we thought there was a lot of room for useful innovation in exploring it and bringing more people into contact with code when they have the interest. Which more people naturally will when they find it a rewarding experience because it helps them do things they want (like design) and aren't scoffed at as innately unsuited to do it. The developer involved in building this new tool argued with us for days that in no way should designers touch code. He even argued that designers weren't qualified to design new UI patterns without a front end developer like him holding their hands.
I suppose he's entitled to his opinion, but I think he's very wrong. And it's not the first time I've heard it, not even close. Like you, I've wandered from my design entry point. But due to how I've specialized I've stayed in close contact and being primarily a coder while still not an insider has given me the opportunity to catch a lot of flak.