From Podcast：Left-Right (忽左忽右)
Episode：How podcasts deeply involve in the US presidential election (播客如何深度介入美国大选)， updated on November 8, 2024
This is a Chinese podcast. This episode focuses on the 2024 US presidential election, discussing podcasts' deep involvement, their unique roles and influence changes compared to traditional media.
The host is Cheng Yanliang (程衍樑), with guests Yang Yi (杨一) and Sha Qingqing (沙青青). They're my favorites. It's great. Recommended for listening.
The following are our listening notes. Please forgive us if there are any mistakes or inappropriate remarks, and we sincerely welcome your corrections.
Core Content of This Episode
The results of the 2024 US presidential election were announced on November 6th, with Trump emerging victorious. During this election, podcasts became an important platform for candidates to make appearances and expound their views, highlighting their influence. It was even dubbed the "first year of the podcast election". The connection between podcasts and the election has been evolving continuously from 2016 to 2024, from initially showing potential to becoming the main battlefield for public opinion propaganda. Their role has gone far beyond simple information dissemination and has had a certain impact on the election results, perhaps also accelerating the decline of traditional media.
Podcasts had a strong presence in 2024 election. For example, Joe Rogan launched 3 episodes in a month before election, inviting Trump etc. High click - through rates influenced results. Podcasts' influence grew from 2016 to 2024. Trump joined 17 podcasts pre - election as traditional media declined. Joe Rogan's podcast has wide, loyal audience (young & Latino men). Trump's appearance got high views, while Harris' had low.
Reviewing 2016 - 2024 elections and podcasts: In 2016, Obama on a podcast got attention, Hillary had a fundraising one, NYT experimented with audio. After 2016, related companies developed podcasts. In 2020, candidates' direct podcast involvement was low, but podcasts were active with media and opinion leaders involved. In 2024, Trump used podcasts for his base and swing voters, Harris did the same, and Biden's attitude changed.
Compared to traditional TV media, podcasts have unique advantages. They have no duration limit, high completion rate, and hosts rarely conflict with candidates. Democrats' utilitarian choice sometimes caused incongruity. Trump on Joe Rogan's podcast was good as he was more sincere and the environment was more comfortable. This may accelerate traditional media's decline.
From an industry view, podcast industry has two paths. Traditional broadcasters' podcasts are impacted by economy, while those by amateurs or famous people thrive. Data shows podcasts are important in the US. Joe Rogan's podcast is popular. YouTube helps promote podcasts. Also, podcasts' election influence rose, traditional media's credibility is questioned, and business was cautious pre - election.
This election is the "first year of the podcast election". Biden's social media crackdown made Silicon Valley businessmen cautious. Traditional media's influence weakened as its views are detached from the public and it can't present the election well. Podcasts and YouTube can better reflect public opinions. There was a White House speech like a podcast. The host will keep an eye on related topics, especially Trump's new - term changes.
Podcasts that play an important role in the election
The Joe Rogan Experience
One of the most influential US podcasts is hosted by Joe Rogan. It usually has a huge listenership, with 15 million subscribers on Spotify (far ahead of the second). Each episode is about three hours, and fans are highly engaged. Its audience is mainly young and Latino men.
In the 2024 US presidential election, it became an important public - opinion platform. It invited Trump, Vance, Elon Musk, etc., and its play count affected the election.
It once had an exclusive deal with Spotify. Before the election, the deal expired and it returned to YouTube and other platforms, expanding its influence.
The program is rich and topical. Political topics are important, covering international and domestic issues like UK affairs and Q&A. It's not far - right or conservative. For the audience, it's more male - interest - oriented. 80% of the listeners are men, with diverse political stances: 35% independent, 32% Republican, 27% Democrat. The guests are diverse, including Musk, Trump, Snowden. The program is inclusive and attractive in content and views.
It mainly features in - depth conversations between Joe Rogan and guests. The atmosphere is relaxed and profound. The long duration meets the need for in - depth content and gives guests chances to express views.
In the month before the election day, it launched three episodes with Trump, Vance, and Musk. In a few weeks, the click count exceeded 70 - 80 million, affecting the voting results. After Trump's victory, Dana White thanked Joe Rogan and other supporting podcasters in the victory speech.
Joe Rogan isn't far - right or a conspiracy theorist. He's a charismatic opinion leader. The podcast is relaxed, like chatting with friends. In 2024, Trump's appearance on his podcast helped consolidate his base and attract undecided voters.
He was a boxing commentator and comedian. He started podcasting in 2011. In 2021, Spotify bought him, and he later returned to YouTube. His topics are accessible to ordinary people, making the program mainstream and attracting many American male listeners. The podcast has 15 million monthly active users on YouTube. YouTube's long - and - short - video linkage helps spread the program.
Call Her Daddy
The podcast's audience is mainly women, with about 5 - 6 million subscriptions. Hosted by Alex Cooper, it's a top - five podcast. Its unique style is typical of American female emotion bloggers, focusing on topics women care about like lifestyles, emotions, and especially private and personalized content such as women's sexual pleasure. It creates a relaxed and friendly atmosphere to attract its female audience.
In the 2024 US election, Vice President Kamala Harris was on this podcast. But the host's professional field and style limited her in handling political figures and topics. So when Harris was on, the show was just so - so and felt strange and awkward. However, like Trump, Harris took a middle - ground strategy by being on this and other podcasts. She also appeared on black - culture podcasts to get votes, including those of African Americans.
This podcast had complex issues with Spotify, like being acquired and then separating. These events got high attention in the industry, showing the opportunities and challenges podcasts face in business, including platform cooperation, copyright, and profit distribution, providing lessons for other podcasts' business operations.
The New York Times: The Daily
One of the top three globally downloaded podcasts, hosted by Michael Barbaro. It originated from The New York Times' attempt to create podcasts during the 2016 election. The interview with Trump became a source of confidence for its development. The program is highly influential and a prime example of successful transformation from traditional media to podcasts, covering various aspects including politics.
Club Shay Shay
Hosted by Shannon Sharpe, an NFL All-Star who won four or five Super Bowls, bringing a unique sports star aura and fan base to the program. Daily topics mainly revolve around sports events, fashionable lifestyles, and hip-hop culture, closely related to the host's own experiences and interests, forming a unique program style. In terms of audience, it mainly attracts people who love sports, follow fashion, and are into hip-hop culture, especially having a high influence among African American men. In the context of the 2024 US presidential election, Harris' team chose to let her participate in this podcast (Kamala Harris - Club Shay Shay) to court African American male voters and expand the source of votes. However, due to the low compatibility between Harris and the original topics of the program, her performance on the show was a bit stiff, affecting the program effect to some extent. Nevertheless, this also reflects a way of applying podcasts in political campaign strategies, that is, expanding a candidate's influence by choosing podcasts with specific target audiences.
Podcasts Founded by NPR producer Alex Blumberg
It is a successful example in the early days of the podcast industry. Its success attracted a large number of traditional broadcasters to enter the podcast field, which is of great significance in the development history of the podcast industry. In terms of content, it may have inherited some of the well-produced characteristics of traditional radio, with a professional production team and high-quality content, able to meet listeners' needs for in-depth and excellent content. During its development, it was favored by capital, and a series of capital operations promoted its development, making it a landmark program in the development path of the podcast industry at that time, setting a development model for latercomers and contributing to the elevation of the podcast industry's status in mainstream media.
It suddenly became popular before the 2016 election, along with Marc Maron's podcast and the event of Obama on Marc Maron's podcast (Episode 613 - President Barack Obama), attracting more attention to podcasts as an emerging medium.
The Podcast Hosted by Two Former Obama Aides at The Ringer Company (Later Transformed into Pod Save America)
It started during the 2016 US presidential election and was transformed into Pod Save America after Trump was elected. It is an important political podcast in the American liberal camp, playing an important role in spreading liberal views and promoting the development of Crooked Media Company, which has also expanded into various types of political programs.
Team Coco
This is a program launched by the podcast company created by Conan O'Brien, a well-known late-night talk show host and comedian. Conan O'Brien's own popularity and talent endow this podcast unique charm. As a comedian, he can bring humorous elements to the program, and as a talk show host, he has excellent hosting and guiding abilities, making the program unique in both content and form. The podcast has attracted his original fans from other programs and also expanded new listener groups, demonstrating a successful model of celebrities using their own advantages and influence to develop podcasts in the development process of the podcast industry, becoming a typical case of cross-border development and occupying a place in the podcast market.
Marc Maron's Podcast
With a garage as the recording studio, it received widespread attention due to Obama's participation (Episode 613 - President Barack Obama). It is a typical example of the combination of early podcasts and political figures, promoting the development of the podcast industry in the public eye and making podcasts known to more people as an emerging medium.
The Podcast Produced by Pineapple Street Media for Hillary Clinton: With Her
It is a fundraising podcast tailored for Hillary Clinton's campaign. Similar in form to a documentary, it followed Hillary Clinton from the August national convention to the eve of the vote, interviewing her and related personnel (such as her daughter, campaign team) whenever possible, and producing multiple episodes to allow people to have an in-depth understanding of the internal situation of Hillary Clinton's campaign. It is a form of candidates using podcasts for publicity.
The New York Times: Run-Up
During the 2016 US presidential election, it was the release platform for The New York Times Editorial Board's exclusive interview with Trump. Although the program was not well-known and had poor sound quality at that time, this interview was The New York Times' attempt to transform into audio using podcasts during the election cycle, laying a certain foundation for the development of subsequent podcasts such as The Daily.
The Ezra Klein Show
Hosted by Ezra Klein, one of the founders of Vox, it is a current affairs commentary and interview program. Active during the 2020 US presidential election cycle, it represents the liberal voice in the podcast field, commenting on and discussing topics related to the election, attracting liberal audiences' attention.
Ben Shapiro's Daily Wire Podcast
Founded by right-wing pundit Ben Shapiro, it represented the conservative force during the 2020 US presidential election cycle, along with other conservative or right-wing podcasts, spreading conservative views during the election and attracting conservative audiences. It is a podcast with a distinct political stance.
The President's Radio Address to the Americas (White House Podcast)
Dating back to the Bush era at the earliest, it was an early radio address in a form similar to podcasts by the White House. It was an early attempt by the White House in the podcast field, pioneering the combination of podcasts and politics, reflecting the long history of the connection between podcasts and American politics from a historical perspective, and being of great significance for studying the development history of podcasts in the political field. It witnessed the early form and starting point of development of podcasts in political propaganda and information dissemination.
Traditional Program: CBS's 60 Minutes
A well-known program in traditional media, it used to be one of the important platforms for US presidential candidates to make appearances. However, during the 2024 election, its influence declined significantly. For example, Trump refused to do an exclusive interview on this program, showing the loss of dominance of traditional media in this election.
As a classic representative program in traditional television media, it has an extremely high reputation and influence in the news industry. It has long adhered to strict journalistic responsibilities and professional ethics, conducting in-depth reporting and supervision on various fields such as society, politics, and economy. In interviews with political figures such as presidential candidates, it takes supervision and questioning as the starting point, representing the audience to conduct a strict review of the candidates, ensuring that the public can obtain comprehensive and objective information. It will not easily provide a platform for candidates to simply promote their own ideologies, but will analyze the candidates' remarks and actions through sharp questions and a rigorous reporting style. This serious journalistic attitude makes the program authoritative in the traditional media field, but also forms a sharp contrast with the relatively relaxed atmosphere of podcasts. During the election, whether a candidate accepts an interview on 60 Minutes becomes an important news event. If refused, it may trigger condemnation, criticism, and attacks in the media industry.
Stories between important figures and podcasts
Donald Trump
- He is the President of the United States. He participated in the US Presidential Elections as the Republican candidate in 2016 and 2020 respectively, and was elected as the 45th President of the United States in 2016. He was elected as the 47th President of the United States in 2024.
- Known for his unique media strategy, he often uses social media platforms (especially Twitter) to communicate directly with the public, bypassing traditional media. In the 2016 interview with The Run-Up program of The New York Times, although the audio quality was not good, it became the news focus of the day due to its important content and challenging questions, showing his ability to utilize emerging media.
- Renowned for his large-scale campaign rallies, with the iconic slogan "Make America Great Again". These rallies are an important part of his campaign activities and also symbolize his political style.
- In the 2024 election, he adopted the "air warfare" strategy, making more use of digital platforms and podcasts for his campaign activities. Before the election, he participated in 17 podcasts, communicating with podcast hosts for more than 20 hours. He was on Joe Rogan's podcast (#2219 - Donald Trump) which has 15 million subscribers. In podcasts, he can communicate with listeners in a more informal and friendly way, showing sincerity, bypassing the editing and censorship of traditional media to directly convey his views and information to listeners, helping to solidify his base and influence swing voters and those in the middle. For example, his interview on Joe Rogan's show became a phenomenon-level content, with the views generated by his appearance on the show reaching over 40 million.
- Politically, he tends to be conservative, collaborating with right-wing podcasts to strengthen his support within the Republican base. He regards podcasts as an effective campaign tool, similar to campaign rallies, for in-depth conversations and storytelling to convey political messages and ideas.
- Commercially, he is well-known for his real estate business and the TV show "The Apprentice". Before entering politics, he was a TV celebrity and a successful businessman. His political influence remained significant in the 2024 election, being active on podcasts and other new media platforms. His nationalist and conservative policy stances include restrictions on immigrants, trade protectionism and tax cut policies. Both his supporters and critics are extremely passionate, and his public image and controversial nature mean that any appearance in the media is likely to attract widespread attention. He declined an exclusive interview with CBS's "60 Minutes". In hindsight, this choice highlights the enhanced role of podcasts in the US elections and the decline of the influence of traditional media. His remarks and activities in podcasts have a certain impact on the election, and in the chat show with Joe Rogan, the differences in their value stances and views were shown. For example, when attacking Harris, Joe Rogan would speak up for Harris, and at the same time, Joe Rogan would ask him some strange questions such as whether to unlock the files about aliens and Kennedy's prediction files.
Kamala Harris
- A candidate in the 2024 US Presidential Election, the Vice President of the United States, the first female Vice President, and the first African American and South Asian Vice President in US history. She formerly served as a US Senator from California.
- Actively participated in podcast shows during the 2024 election, especially those targeting specific groups such as women and African Americans. Her podcast participation strategy was to win over votes from different groups. For example, she appeared on podcasts like "Call Her Daddy (Vice President Kamala Harris)" which mainly has a female audience, and "Club Shay Shay (Kamala Harris)" which has an African American male audience.
- She declined the invitation from Joe Rogan, mainly because she was unwilling to go to the recording studio in Austin and only offered Joe Rogan's team one hour, which might be a strategy to avoid going on the show. The view counts of the shows she appeared on differed greatly from those of Trump. For instance, the view count of the episode where Trump was on Joe Rogan's show was over 40 million, while the view count of the shows she was on was only around 400,000. This shows that on the emerging and highly influential promotional channel of podcasts, she didn't achieve the same level of dissemination effect as Trump. She also didn't show enough advantages in interacting with mainstream media such as Fox. The interview time with Fox was less than half an hour, and she didn't make good use of the opportunity of the exclusive interview. Her performances in podcasts were sometimes awkward and unnatural. Perhaps she wasn't familiar enough with this medium and regarded it more as a task rather than an opportunity to communicate with voters, showing a sense of distance in these podcasts and sometimes having poor show effects.
JD Vance
- He appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast show. Coming from an elite background and graduating from a prestigious school, he is considered to have values relatively similar to Joe Rogan's. Stylistically, he might be more suitable for Joe Rogan's show than Trump. Before the show arrangements were made, the American media once speculated that he was more suitable for Joe Rogan's show because they thought Trump's boastful and irresponsible way of speaking might not be as compatible with Joe Rogan.
Hillary Clinton
- A US political figure. She formerly served as the US Secretary of State and Senator, and was the Democratic candidate in the 2016 US Presidential Election.
- During the 2016 campaign, she hired the Pineapple Street Media podcast team to produce a podcast named "With Her" for fundraising purposes. She was the central figure of the program but not the host. This podcast conducted numerous interviews with her campaign team from the August national convention to the eve of voting, allowing people to have a deeper understanding of the internal situation of her campaign. However, her performance in the podcast was considered somewhat artificial and unnatural. Perhaps she regarded the podcast more as a media task that must be completed rather than an opportunity to connect with voters.
Barack Obama
- The 44th President of the United States and the first African American President in US history.
- During his tenure, he participated in Marc Maron's podcast show (Episode 613 - President Barack Obama). This interview enhanced the attention on podcasts as an emerging medium and demonstrated the way political figures use new media to communicate with the public. His staffers were involved in related podcast work. His former staffers played a promoting role in the development of podcasts related to the 2016 election. New companies and organizations were established based on related podcasts, influencing the development direction of US political podcasts. When he took office in 2008, mainstream news media once described him as opening a new page for the United States and entering a post-racial society. However, the actual situation was not like that, reflecting the existence of bias or idealized situations in the reports of mainstream media at that time.
Joe Biden
- The 46th President of the United States and formerly the Vice President of the United States.
- He defeated Donald Trump as the Democratic candidate in 2020. In 2024 (although he didn't run for the election, there were preparations in the early stage), he appeared on some podcasts. He has a tense relationship with The New York Times. During his tenure, he didn't have a long interview with The New York Times, breaking the convention of American presidents having long interviews with The New York Times. His media strategy is more utilitarian and strategic. His choice to participate in podcasts is mostly based on the arrangements of his public relations team. His performance in podcasts lacks the naturalness and sincerity like Trump's. He regards podcasts more as a propaganda tool rather than a platform to establish personal connections with voters. For example, he once participated in "Smartless ( President Joe Biden)", but it seemed that he didn't have a deep understanding of the value of podcasts. During his tenure, he carried out a rectification of social media platforms, and this behavior had an impact on the attitudes of all parties during this election.
Elon Musk
As the 2024 US election approached, Elon Musk was invited by Joe Rogan to appear on his podcast. He gained some popularity regarding topics related to this election, and his appearance increased the attention on Joe Rogan's show. In an interview in Hong Kong, he stated that he fully supported Trump, fearing that if Trump wasn't elected, he would be targeted by the Democratic government for liquidation, as his business has a deep binding relationship with federal government policies. When he recorded a podcast with Joe Rogan in 2018 (#1470 - Elon Musk), smoking marijuana caused a huge stir. His association in this election made Trump's appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast seem more reasonable.
Dana White
The boss of UFC and a good friend of Trump. He appeared as a guest in Trump's victory speech and thanked podcast hosts like Joe Rogan.
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