Writing scripts is a subset of coding we sometimes can't avoid nor should be afraid of. The standard tool for writing scripts is Bash for UNIX envi...
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The strong points of bash (ksh, and sh) are the ubiquity. I am a strong proponent of using the right tool for the job, and many of the other scripting languages out there (python, node, etc) don't come close to the ubiquity of shell scripts.
I can agree that to the uninitiated there is a lot of syntax that looks really odd, but with well structured scripts (making proper use of functions, built-ins, etc), bash scripts can be quite understandable and powerful.
To take full advantage of shell scripting (which can be quite performant and portable), script authors should learn more about the shell and take advantage of shell-isms. Bash, for example, has native support for REGEX (in version 4.x up, I'm not sure how far back it goes) that negates the need for many grep operations. In addition one should seldom use grep piped to sed or awk; those programs (nay, programming languages) contain all that's necessary to do the same work without spawning another executable.
Using IFS and array variables is a much cleaner solution than using cut. Default values, variable splitting, and no-op operations are indispensable for moderate to advanced scripts.
Against your point, however, bash/shell scripts are nice because they are concise. The "hello world" example you contrived is a good point: the shell script is 2 lines. The python code is 2 lines plus the setup for argparse. Once one is familiar with the syntax, scripts like those are easier to read in bash because they're shorter.
I also like the points about using shellcheck and strict-mode. My experience is also that posix-mode is a good tool to use in scripts where either the bash version isn't guaranteed, or where bash may not be used at all. There are also some really nice testing frameworks (like BATS) that will help with code correctness. Any sufficiently advanced scripts should also be modular (and make use of the source built-in), with perhaps a build that will make a single executable script for deployment. Bash scripts, like any other code, should also be source managed unless they are sufficiently small, straightforward, and localized, that source management just doesn't make sense.
I, unfortunately, see many places where heavier scripting languages like python or node are shoehorned in to do a job where one or more bash scripts would do the job with less effort. We are entering a time when fewer and fewer people are as familiar with the basics of shell scripting, yet there are far more tools and libraries available to make shell scripts easier to write.
In conclusion: I agree with the premise that bash/shell scripting should not be used everywhere for every task, but I disagree with you on where to draw that line. Each and every task ought to be evaluated to determine which tool is best for that job, and many times a simple (or moderately complex) shell script will get the job done just as fast (or faster) with less effort than a heavyweight scripting language will (because shell scripts are designed to do one thing very well, and other scripting languages may be designed with other goals).
Good points. An analogy could be made with text editors. On the other side we have Vim which is super powerful editor in the hands of a wizard but many still prefer to use eg. VS Code for getting job done nice and easy. I use both, by the way.
I do too ;-)
I started reading this with the intention of sharing "all the counter points". Admittedly, not a good way to start reading something. After reading through it though, your points are well thought-out and communicated. So kudos on the great post!
This points that I would make (on both sides) have mostly already been made.
Point: Bash is everywhere.
Counter point: Same with Python 2.7 (for the most part). Precompiled Go binaries can run anywhere.
Point: Bash do almost everything you need in a script.
Counter point: Ruby, Python, Go, etc. can do it better and simpler.
Point: Bash doesn't require external dependancies.
Counter point:
openssl,libcurl, etc. are external dependancies, they're just typically already installed. Python, Ruby, etc. can also be written without external dependancies.I could go on.
As Aaron Cripps mentions in his comment, "I am a strong proponent of using the right tool for the job."
All that said, personally, I'm a huge fan of Bash. With solid programming practices and the use of a linter, it can be clean, concise, portable and readable.
Thanks for reading the article thoroughly. 👍🏽
Hi, I've written far too many Bash scripts to understand its downsides. The link you provided doesn't really change my views, would you care to elaborate where I have made mistakes?
Furthermore, your so-called "lies" are just opinions. It's not too hard to have some respect while commenting. Remember this and I don't have to report you.
This is very hostile.
I'm guessing that you identify with Bash, and since Bash is part of your identity, you took the original post as a personal attack.
There is no need for this.
There are better ways to disagree with someone than to attack someone's competence and integrity.
😕
You're using Python 3.5 or earlier? f-strings are quite delicious as of 3.6. :)
Yep! It's just the example of many assumptions underpinning python code for scripting, and so on
Yes, for maximum compatibility the old
%way of concatenating would be safest, of course.Thanks for your input. Since you're just obviously misreading intentionally I'm signing this discussion off with a notice that opinionated blog posts and research articles are two different things. Learn that.
What are your thoughts on using binary compiled software versus scripting languages?
One thing to consider is that when the tools you write are regularly used there is a point at which a software application becomes a more suitable tool than a script, no matter how convenient the tool or script was when first created.
Thoughts?
Some of the larger scripts I create with different languages I actually put in Docker images so they are quite like binaries. Helpful when moving those between platforms.
I'm trying to learn Golang better to do this without containers as well.
Do developers use C or C++ anymore for anything other than operating system code?
I used to be an application software maintainer for a commercial UNIX operating system group. The classic old utilities were written in C. The desktop utilities (Motif, CDE, etc.) we're written in C++.
That was in the mid to late 1990s.
Most newer Linux distributions have C code for core applications and a somewhat greater variety of coding languages for applications.
Golang is an example of a comparatively newer application language.
Do you see application development being done frequently with interpretive languages?
Your scenario highlights a work culture where junior dev skills are fundamentally underestimated and undervalued. If you get kicks from lecturing to people, then show us a better example and write a post here why (in your opinion) Bash should be used for scripting. After all, DEV is a free platform.
tl;dr "Shell should only be used for small utilities or simple wrapper scripts." google.github.io/styleguide/shell.xml
It is all I need to know.
That's a nice resource that I haven't seen before, thanks for that!
... definitely going to stick to those guidelines in future scripts.
I have to agree. The more complex the task, the more tedious bash seems. Especially when I need to pair it with .bat for cross platform projects, python or node make a lot more sense. My preference is coffeescript. I find Cakefile to be very helpfull.
Task runners are great tools for running maintenance scripts on projects. My usual pick is pyinvoke but, naturally, these should be selected depending on the project language.
I personally use python scripts for anything that stands alone or anything that benefits from internal classes. Anything running in my build server and needing system utilities like scp and ssh to push data around goes in a bash script for ease. This came about after spending a great deal of time chaining bash commands together into one liners that did a great deal of heavy lifting for me regularly. I stepped from one liners into bash scripts, and eventually decided that a good bit of the work that I was doing would be more easily written in python, and for the most part I've been able to keep with python for all things that are not deploying my java applications.
You are just trolling here, friend.
No one in this discussion is hating Bash, no matter how much you like to throw that around. No one is telling it's a mistake to use Bash; there are just alternative tools that might serve you better depending on the use case. No one is coming to delete your Bash scripts.
Like I said, you are intentionally drawing a straw man argument to this discussion which is not welcome here nor does it contribute to anything. Let it go, take a walk, and chill.
Being a good developer or not isn't the issue. It's your choice of language.
Calling out statements as being opinion is fine. Disagreeing with them and providing a better option is fine. But calling them lies and insulting the intelligence of the author? That's not fine.
I'm guessing from the quality of your English that it's not your native language. Perhaps there's a misunderstanding here in terminology. For example, "lie" is not the same as "falsehood." The former implies malicious intent, whereas the latter does not.
Im inheriting a project that is moving files between remote servers. The bash programs written are long very difficult to understand. I can't understand how this would be an acceptable engineering tool with it being without basic debugging and error handling.
Closest guess is that the solution was made in a hurry, and therefore, quick Bash scripts seemed like the fastest solution. This is acceptable up to a point, but refactoring / rewriting needs to be ultimately done at some point.
codeproject.com/?cat=2 has quite a few projects that use C++ in conjunction with the libraries and API's for a wide variety of system, application and programming interfaces.
Admittedly many of them are close to the system level as opposed to rapidly developed tools and conveniences.