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Jack of the Stack

Molly Struve (she/her) on March 19, 2019

During the recent Web Application #DevDiscuss, the discussion of Full-Stack developers came up. From there, the discussion delved into the best way...

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Tom VanAntwerp • Mar 19 '19 • Edited

What's beyond full-stack? Because I'm simultaneously responsible for front-end, back-end, devops, and the damned office printers.

Jason Towle • Mar 20 '19

I think I'd end up doing this too if I didn't take so much pleasure in saying to people "sorry, you'll need to speak to IT Support for that". I've lost count how many times someone has come to me and said "my printers broken" and go on, what feels like, an hour long monologue before I lay that gem of a line on them.

Yes..... I do let them waste their breath telling me all about it first :)

Tom VanAntwerp • Mar 20 '19

Wish I could do that. Sadly, I am IT support. I split my days between writing code and jiggling loose monitor cables whenever someone's screen goes black.

Jaaki • Mar 20 '19

I know right. In small businesses and startups, you have to do everything. Even get cookies and coffee ready for meetings.
The corporate devs have it easy, they can concentrate on only one thing... actually sounds a bit boring :D

Joe Zack • Mar 19 '19

Are you really sure that you actually exist? You might want to try pinching yourself. ;)

John Cyrill Corsanes • Mar 20 '19

Even replacing printer inks 😄

Yoandy Rodriguez Martinez • Mar 20 '19

Been there, done that, have the shrink bills to prove it 😂!

Jason Towle • Mar 19 '19

I class myself as a full-stack developer as, with reference to the above Unicorn comic strip, I do indeed "make the entire app" where I currently work. Literally everything, from back to front and front to back. That said, I certainly don't consider I'm a Unicorn "master" and Jack of the Stack may well be a fair assessment.

Joe Zack • Mar 19 '19

My letters change throughout the day ;P

(But seriously, I keep hearing about how full stack devs "don't exist" and can never "truly master" the full stack but I'm still waiting to meet one of these mythical single-enders that have managed to "truly master" their half)

Christopher Hall • Mar 20 '19

What's even more mythical? The full stack designer/developer. Everything from Information Architecture to User Experience to Visual Design to HTML/CSS to Javascript to CMS integration...

Lisa Armstrong • Mar 20 '19

Agreed. You're either a designer who can do some coding, or a coder who has a sense of design. Artist or technician, never both.
I really think it's 2 different types of brains.

Adam Gerthel • Mar 20 '19

I have to say I strongly disagree with you.

I started out as a designer, but over the 10 years as a professional web developer I've moved more and more to programming after finally started learning javascript about 5 years ago. I know a lot about print design, web design, frontend, backend, devops etc. When I work with specialists (i.e. people that stick to a single field), I'm usually not better than they are at what they do, but I'm often not that far behind.

How I got to this point? Time and environment. I started making websites in the mid 90's when I was about 10. My parents are in creative fields (architecture and interior design) and I started out doing a lot of visual design with computers as a teen. I started a web agency at age 22, and have since worked professionally in all fields: Project management, design, frontend/backend, devops, information architecture, you name it. Spending 60+ hour work weeks over a couple of years adds up to a lot of time and skills.

I'm also not alone, I've stumbled (albeit not often) across other people with similar skills. So yes, I actually consider myself a pretty good full-stack developer, and I'm confident as one too. While I do consider my strong suit to be in the visual field more so than programming, I can do much more than "some coding".

Lisa Armstrong • Mar 20 '19

Sorry Adam, I should have been clearer.
My point is, IMHO, you need to be a little of both in this business.
If you're a designer, you need to be able to code and vice versa.

Of course designers can write good code, and coders can create good looking products.

However, I think it's difficult to have equally good skills in all areas because of the time it takes to develop and hone those skills.

I also suspect people are wired differently, and some things come easier than others.

Good on you for working on building up a variety of skills! Very often having a broad understanding of many things serves you well.

Adam Gerthel • Mar 20 '19 • Edited

Thanks! Yes it does, most of the time. The downside is that I have trouble not wanting to have a say in parts of projects that are not necessarily within my area of responsibility. It's so much easier sometime to not know a lot about an area, because then you always trust those that you think are experts. The upside is that I'm generally wanted in projects due to my experience.

Sure, 100% equal skills is rare, but I don't really see that how it's relevant. You could apply the same argument to a developer who knows two different coding paradigms or two different languages. He/she will most likely be better than one than the other, but you wouldn't necessarily claim that it's impossible to be good at both those languages just because of that. Or, you could, but it wouldn't really mean much.

I do however think that there are traits that are more useful as a developer or as a designer. And I suppose developers are more prone to carry the traits that are better for programming and vice versa.

I think we as humans want to categorise things because it makes life easier, but life is seldom b/w. There's a lot of hues in-between.

UPDATE: Anyway, I think this discussion is excessive, most days I would agree with your original statement, because I also think most people are better than one than the other. I got little carried away by all the "anti-unicorn"-iness in this thread :)

Thibaut Allender • Mar 20 '19 • Edited

Isn't every web developer with 15+ years of experience that kind of unicorn?

Heck, I studied computer graphics 23 years ago, got my first job as a web designer / 3d artist / web developer. Started with HTML slicing, then DHTML (ahah), at the same time I was working on personal PHP (2.0!) projects while doing ASP, Perl and other obscure Windows CGI stuff. Then migrated the Win NT internet connection sharing server to Linux because it would constantly crash (yes, you had to do auto dial-in and NAT manually back in the day) and stared using PHP3 to develop the new business websites. I learned CSS when Firebird (yes, before it got renamed to Firefox, that was v0.6 I think) around 2003, taught it to colleagues a few years later, worked on bespoke PHP frameworks, participated in design studios, orchestrating UX, UI and front-end dev, created style guides and design patterns, the list goes on.

Today I mostly do front-end because I think that's the most exciting part but I could still do all the rest, from design to Apache setup with front and back end in between.

That artist/designer/technician split is wrong imho. Web design is, well, design. It's not a painting or art for the sake of it. You need to be the kind of designer that is in fact a technician. Or, I like to use the term craftsman. There's no point creating an interface that is completely useless, or a tool that is so technically complex that it is also useless (on top of being ugly).

Lisa Armstrong • Mar 21 '19

I hear you! I've been at this for a long time as well, since the days a hyperlink was leading technology. :-O

I followed a similar path, and agree the interesting stuff is on the front end these days and programming really is a craft.

You do need to code and have a sense of design. My point was you can do both and be good at it, but your probably a little better at one than the other by nature.

BTW, I love the idea that old programmers never die, they just turn into Unicorns. ;-)

Fred Ross • Mar 20 '19

That's an interesting assertion. So what about the many programmers who are artists (painters, musicians, poets, etc.)?

Lisa Armstrong • Mar 20 '19 • Edited

They are the true unicorns! :)

I mean designers (look of the product) vs coders (make it run).

Generally I find people are either better designers than coders, or vice versa.

There is overlap of course! Designers can code well and coders can make good looking products.

However, finding someone who is equally good at both is rare.

Personally, I enjoy both the technical coding and the creative designing, but I also know one comes easier than the other.

I suspect (pure opinion here) it's because of how our brains are wired, plus our experience / bias.

I also think the 10k hour rule applies too. You need to invest a lot of time to be really good, so the odds are a little more time was spent on one thing vs another.

Bottom line, coding and design go hand in hand. You should be able to do both. IMHO

However, if you're looking for someone who can create brilliant design and brilliant code, that's a reach.

Fred Ross • Mar 21 '19

However, finding someone who is equally good at both is rare.

That's fair. At one point I was probably an equally good programmer and violinist, but programming pays the bills and I haven't kept up with my music.