So I read the word empathy being thrown somewhere on the comments, so maybe I can share a bit of an "out of the stack reason why this meme actually makes a point that is not necessarily offensive".
I'm a "Fullstack Designer" or "Product Designer" (I do UI/UX and CSS/JS daily) and at my current company anyone who can open an IDE is titled Software Engineer (their reasoning for this is expressed in this discussion). So what consequences arise from this one size fits all approach for a design team? Instead of spending time designing, I had to spend hours/days talking with dozens of people to figure out who the people that actually care about the GUI were (I still have to nag all newcomers to see if they will be doing any frontend work).
Now I work with 5 different products in my company and I actually run our Design System complete with a CSS/JS framework (it's almost as big as Bootstrap). Not only I had to waste time hunting down my allies but I also keep getting stuck explaining basic HMTL/CSS all the time (which I love but one person alone cannot do everything).
Half of our full-stacker have expressed they would rather not touch frontend with a ten foot pole, yet they still count on recruitment as people that should be doing frontend, which has made it impossible for me to recruit a real developer to work with me.
Titles are really important if you have cross team collaboration but they are just that titles, you are not forbiddden from doing database work just because you are title frontend developer, neither the opposite. And making separate back front teams would only ever make sense from a org point of view, they should still collaborate as if they were a single team if that setup exists.
To end, I do not fool myself with empirical data but I have been working for a couple years now and I have only met 1/2 actual full stack developers, the usual is that they are good at backend and wrongly think frontend is easy.
Titles are really important if you have cross team collaboration but they are just that titles, you are not forbiddden from doing database work just because you are title frontend developer, neither the opposite.
Yes that’s true, but sometimes companies put arbitrary gates between the different areas. I’ve seen pull requests denied (or delayed) simply because the PR was from someone on a different team.
And making separate back front teams would only ever make sense from a org point of view, they should still collaborate as if they were a single team if that setup exists.
I wish that was the case, but if you’re two different Scrum teams, then you have two different sprint goals and therefore the UI and the backend teams are disincentivized from helping the other team... because that would take time away from the individuals goals. Sounds terrible, but I’ve seen it happen on at least 4 teams. But when you combine the teams into one team with a common backlog, then they are insensitive to help each other get items into the “Done” column. Those are just my observations though. I would not be surprised if there are some teams that have been able to successfully bridge the two teams. But so far, it’s been 4 out of 4 occasions that the two teams were essentially completely independent. I believe this is Conway’s law (but don’t trust me on that).
I hint that the real issue at hand here is that companies and devs seem to have a misguided sense that their goal is to move stories across columns in a board, versus doing a product that humans will use.
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So I read the word empathy being thrown somewhere on the comments, so maybe I can share a bit of an "out of the stack reason why this meme actually makes a point that is not necessarily offensive".
I'm a "Fullstack Designer" or "Product Designer" (I do UI/UX and CSS/JS daily) and at my current company anyone who can open an IDE is titled Software Engineer (their reasoning for this is expressed in this discussion). So what consequences arise from this one size fits all approach for a design team? Instead of spending time designing, I had to spend hours/days talking with dozens of people to figure out who the people that actually care about the GUI were (I still have to nag all newcomers to see if they will be doing any frontend work).
Now I work with 5 different products in my company and I actually run our Design System complete with a CSS/JS framework (it's almost as big as Bootstrap). Not only I had to waste time hunting down my allies but I also keep getting stuck explaining basic HMTL/CSS all the time (which I love but one person alone cannot do everything).
Half of our full-stacker have expressed they would rather not touch frontend with a ten foot pole, yet they still count on recruitment as people that should be doing frontend, which has made it impossible for me to recruit a real developer to work with me.
Titles are really important if you have cross team collaboration but they are just that titles, you are not forbiddden from doing database work just because you are title frontend developer, neither the opposite. And making separate back front teams would only ever make sense from a org point of view, they should still collaborate as if they were a single team if that setup exists.
To end, I do not fool myself with empirical data but I have been working for a couple years now and I have only met 1/2 actual full stack developers, the usual is that they are good at backend and wrongly think frontend is easy.
Thank you for your response. :)
Yes that’s true, but sometimes companies put arbitrary gates between the different areas. I’ve seen pull requests denied (or delayed) simply because the PR was from someone on a different team.
I wish that was the case, but if you’re two different Scrum teams, then you have two different sprint goals and therefore the UI and the backend teams are disincentivized from helping the other team... because that would take time away from the individuals goals. Sounds terrible, but I’ve seen it happen on at least 4 teams. But when you combine the teams into one team with a common backlog, then they are insensitive to help each other get items into the “Done” column. Those are just my observations though. I would not be surprised if there are some teams that have been able to successfully bridge the two teams. But so far, it’s been 4 out of 4 occasions that the two teams were essentially completely independent. I believe this is Conway’s law (but don’t trust me on that).
I hint that the real issue at hand here is that companies and devs seem to have a misguided sense that their goal is to move stories across columns in a board, versus doing a product that humans will use.