Usually the developers like to use powerful computers.
They can explain this with many reasons, but the truth is that it is easy to work on a fas...
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I think the issue isn't that developers use really powerful computers, it's that they don't test on cheap, low-end systems anywhere near as much as they should.
Being able to work efficiently is critical these days for software developers, full stop. It's the whole reason IDE's exist in the first place, it's why stuff like
makeexists, and it's a significant part of why high-level languages even exist (not having to worry about things like memory management frees up mental capacity for handling the actual project).I encourage you to try building webkit-gtk locally on that laptop you have, I suspect it will take multiple days, if not possibly weeks (it takes almost two hours on the laptop I'm typing this from, which has a Core i7-7700HQ CPU and 16GB of DDR4-2400 RAM). While webkit-gtk is a pathologically bad case of problems with build efficiency, it's really not unusual for big projects to take an hour or more to compile even on big fancy development machines (same machine I mentioned above, GCC, LLVM, GHC, IcedTea, Rust, Boost, LibreOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird also all take almost an hour to build, if not more). If you can't build your own software in a reasonable amount of time, you can't test it efficiently during development, and quality goes down significantly.
This is true and the reason is that all process of refusing to optimize further is totally unconscious. Yes, the programmer can be forced to test on slow machine. But even then, he will recognize as "acceptable" results that he would never accept on his own working computer.
And after recognizing the speed as "acceptable", nothing can make him to work further.
Actually the goal of my post is not to make everyone to downgrade his computer. (It would be great, but I am realistic), but to underline exactly the unconsciousness of this process and this way to help people to realize the effect and maybe to counteract it intentionally.
Well, I never compiled webkit, but recently I have worked on a patch for WINE, so the full build continued something like 10 hours. So I understand what you mean. But nevertheless the patch was committed successfully and now there is one bug less.
It's not as purely unconscious as you seem to think, at least not for real world development tasks.
The thing is, as a general rule, optimization is hard (yes, there are some trivial cases, but they are in the minority). It's also very difficult to determine reliably if any given piece of code really could be more efficient than it already is. Together, this means that once you meet the minimum performance requirements for realistic usability, it's often a better use of your time to work on things that are guaranteed to improve the software than it is to chase that extra few milliseconds of faster load time, especially when the latter is far more likely to introduce new bugs in existing functionality than the former.
Now, where that minimum required level of performance is is not easy to figure out, and varies from project to project, sometimes wildly, and often over time too ( for example, if you're in a saturated market, the minimum level of performance you need is 'roughly as good as your most popular competitors'), but it's always there, whether you like it or not.
I totally disagree with that kind of argument. As a software developer, it is my job to ship good software as fast as I can. Why on earth would I purposely use a tool that is slowing me in the process ? I want the best tool I can afford so that I can concentrate on delivering, not cursing and patching.
There is tools, metrics and theories available to make sure what you ship is working on slower machines. There is no way I'm compromising my efficiency for something that can be tested otherwise. I don't mean you need to blow out $6k on a Macbook. I'm using a T470 with i5, 500gig SSD, 16 gigs of RAM with Fedora 29 as my daily driver and it's plenty enough to develop stable, fast and low resource cost software.
I am sure the InteliJ and Atom developers share the same opinion.
Exactly, and their target audience is developers, meaning they have even looser performance standards.
So how can you hope to be productive when you need to use those?
Don't you think this is kind of vicious circle, that need to be broken somehow?
In my opinion no, unless there is negligence. Companies providing tools should not prevent themselves to release features on the premise the users need a powerful machine (their is limit, yes but in general IDEs use resources decently).
Sure, it's a positive feedback loop. All I'm saying is they're acting rationally.
More rationally than boycotting them would be for those developers whose productivity in their job would be severely impacted by doing so.
Making sure your software works on low end devices is important but I don't think crippling your development platform is the way to get there.
I have issues with swapping and running out of memory with 16 GB of ram. I don't know how I'd get by with 4. Developing requires running a lot more software than your end users will. Builds already take a considerable amount of time and I rather not slow it down more.
Yeah, I feel the same. But it also depends on what kind of software we write. If running 2 instances of Visual Studio, 1 of Android Studio, 1 each of Firefox and Chrome and SSMS is your requirement (I've had to do various combinations of these apps), then 4 GB won't cut it. But the author's laptop would be plenty for ssh'ing into a server and using terminal based programs.
yes I would love to work in a slow machine, so as when I have to compile a humongous project I can mess around longer.
when I joined my current company they gave me an old slow laptop. Our main project took 35 min to compile. A few months ago, we switch to a new and powerful laptop, it takes 3 minutes....guess which one caused more frustration.
Not to mention no client will have to go through that process. I deploy my backend apps on aws micro machines so, yeah they need to be optimised and fast. I deploy my angular front end in S3 buckets, the client will never go through the pain of building the project, he doesn't necessary need a fast machine.
Interesting, but all developers complaining about slow compilation and lose of productivity on a slow computer. But somehow forget about the incremental builds. If your project is correctly structured, you have to build it only once. All future compilations are only on the modules you changed and modules that depend on the changed modules.
So, if you are working on a slow computer and really, really want to do the job, you always can setup your build environment properly and build fast.
Even if you are working on a module that all other modules use, you can create small test project that use this module and work with it, not building the whole project at all.
There is always solution, if you want to make it. And there is always an excuse, if you don't want to make it.
This is indeed true and it can work fine for a few hours. But in real world scenarios that doesn't easily hold. If you work on a specific branch all alone without being bothered, it works. When you have 15 people working on the same project and you need to rebase every couple of hours plus visual studio untrustworthiness that means you either need to keep track of other people changes and rebuild specific modules or rebuild the whole thing. Unit tests are again a good way around but the same problem applied ...rebuilding the test project takes time. I am not complaining but it's a issue I rather not worry about....than being ...oh my *** I need to rebuild again...and I just made coffee
I totally agree with you.
a few months ago I read an artical about the text editor and interviews acceptance relationship and it show most of people don't use vi/emacs, we know why, but the vi/emacs users has the higher acceptance rate -please if you did read the artical reply with the url cuz I can't found it-.
the explanation is simple, most of vi/emacs users write code to solve their own daily problem instead if just install plugins bu clicking.
Same thing about GNU/Linux or BSD vs mac or windows.
You made some valid points here, but It's not always the case.
I am full stack developer.
When I working on the back-end I don't have to worry THAT MUCH on performance. In fact, if it runs on my machine, then it definitely will run on 100 times faster server.
But when I am working on front-end, I do put a lot of care into making websites as responsive as possible. Chrome provides tools for that, you've got the performance tab where you can simulate 6x CPU slowdown and measure how well websites behaves. You can also test you're website on a separate smartphone or tablet.
Having a powerful development workstation allows us developers to accomplish our tasks faster. For example you can use powerful IDEs (like Intellij). Compiling code is also much faster.
Are you coding while commuting?
My servers are usually not so fast. Right now I am using 1CPU core with 1GB of RAM on 2.4GHz; In addition, the back-end is one of the software that need to be optimized to the last extent. Because the back-end is aimed to serve multiple users simultaneously. So, even if it is 100 times faster than your working computer, when there are 1000 (or 10K) clients connected, the performance matters.
If developers of InteliJ had used slower computers for development, this IDE would be much faster now. :D
Reminds me of devc++.
This thing had such fast auto-completion like nothing really.
There is some merit in what you are saying, but it only makes sense to a point. For example, should you dev without any screen -- instead relying on a screen reader -- to make sure that you produce accessible apps? Assuming you do that, how are you going to know if the app looks as you intended when someone does have a monitor?
Or if you produce code on low-powered devices, how do you know if it will scale up in capability with higher powered devices? (Or that it will even work anymore?)
Rather than focusing on constraining your dev machine artificially, it's probably better to test the end product on the environments (along with their constraints) you are targeting.
You are right to the some extent. And I can think about many other examples and counterexamples. But it all depends on what you as a developer really want. If you want to make really accessible application, especially targeted for a blind people and want to make it in a best possible way, you definitely should have an visually impaired programmer in the team.
You may have great QA team that to test the program and claim it is slow, but if the developers think (subconsciously) that the program is fast enough, it will never be fixed. The development speed will slow down and the developers will find a way to persuade all around that it is impossible to make this program faster. The release date will come and the program will be released slow.
So, if you can suggest the developers that the program is slow in a way they really believe it (not simply to agree) they will make it faster. If not, well, the next slow program will be released.
Seems like there is a bigger problem with the organization if no one will listen. Low powered dev machines won't help that.
Oh, they will listen carefully. And they will agree. But only in words.
I totally agree on the fact that
I saw that when I was doing Mobile applications. Whether it is on iOS or Android, developers tends to have the highest end mobile available and are developing on it. And when it is working properly on the latest OS version on the latest high end mobile, they tend to not optimizing it any further.
I would heavily recommend that developers have a low end mobile device and put into the Definition of Done (I assume that you work using Agile methodologies) that the software must work properly on the low end target device.
It's an interesting position, forcing people to think about performance in the target environment all the time, but for me this seems a rather simplistic approach, as often the target environment varies according to cost, especially for SaaS solutions. Video games, military systems, satellites, tend to have increasing constraints where it becomes important to design for performance earlier, and where professional development would use appropriate simulation and test environments. Even in our predominantly SaaS deployments, we try to create representative test environments to understand behaviour and pick up opportunities to reduce our costs or improve user experience.
And it is. But it works for me.
Notice, that I am using only tools that performs fast enough to not slow my working process.
For example my typical builds on approximately 500Kloc of code is something like 3..4 seconds.
My IDE runs instantly and my keyboard repeat rate is set to 50 characters per second (and 250ms initial delay) in order to allow faster navigation in the source.
The same is about the version control system and any other tool I am using. The only not-so-good performing are the graphics editors Inkscape and Gimp are slow as hell. But well, I am looking for something better and will find it some day.
Dude, I'm with you on almost everything, a lot of people on my team when on UAT or replicating bugs always keep it coming with the old "It works on my machine", but how could you get a full dev environment (IDEs and other tools) work on a machine like that? how to test with a Chrome windows with devtools open? You will be out of memory in a glance.
I am using Chromium with devtools open and actually it works pretty good with 4GB or RAM.
As I already said - we are the experts. We need to be able to setup our development tools to work properly with every computer.
If the IDE needs too much resources, we have to press the IDE developers to make it less resource hungry. After all, we can create our own IDEs and stop using bloated software. There was powerful IDEs when the computers was 200MHz. The modern IDEs are not more powerful. They are simply slower.
Totally depends on the kind of work you do. From anecdotally knowledge I'd second that having to work your way around the limitations of your hardware can make one create more clever and efficient solutions.
I'd never sacrifice productivity for this kind of hypothetical optimization though. The question is how valuable your own time is to you.
I'm in my mid 30s, having two kids and a bunch of other things to do. To me time not only equals money. It's quality of life. 10 years back and I might have been in for any kind of (micro-)optimization just for the sake of it.
In the end my objective is getting things done and maximizing fun and productivity while doing it.
I'm a Front End Dev, FWIW.
I totally on the fact that
I saw that when I was doing Mobile applications. Whether it is on iOS or Android, developers tends to have the highest end mobile available and are developing on it. And when it is working properly on the latest OS version on the latest high end mobile, they tend to not optimizing it any further.
I would heavily recommend that developers have a low end mobile device and put into the Definition of Done (I assume that you work using Agile methodologies) that the software must work properly on the low end target device.
Yes, it's always been a saying with us.
"Developers with slow machines write fast code."
If it runs on a slow machine it will also run on a fast machine, but not the other way round!
Peace
When I bought my laptop last year, I did it for the same reason :) Acer Aspire 3 w/ Intel Pentium 4417U/4GB RAM/Intel HD Graphics 610 iGPU/500GB HDD. This was the most I wanted out of my development machine, since it's an 8th Gen Intel CPU with all modern features and still dual core and cheap. Btw I'm a student, and not an actual developer.
I do want to study machine learning however, but for that a budget gaming laptop which costs 4 times more won't be much different from this one (because I can almost do the same stuff in this machine with some more patience) I have so I'm saving for the best laptop available.
I would like to point out that, others would've mentioned it too - working on a high end machine is not all that bad. In fact it can make the process easier for you because the main work can be done faster. Then test it on a lower end device and optimize there. That should yield the best results. :)
No, unfortunately, this "trick" is not working at all. In such an arrangement, you will blame your test machine for being slow, not your code. "It is working well on my machine" is very common way of thinking.
I maintain some legacy software written in Delphi. Instead of having to reinstall it every five years or so, I keep it in a Hyper-V VM and just use that. It gets backed up (all 30 GB) when changed.
My current PC is 4 years old so only i7-5930K with 64 GB RAM but when it comes to VMs like this, more RAM is better.
Now I'm just highlighting an edge case you might not have considered. I also develop software that runs on a Raspberry PI so I am familiar with your pov. But developing for a low end PC is not the same as developing on it. I would be tying my arm behind my back if I developed on the PI.
I guess that's one advantage when all your tech is old, shitty, and slow. If it runs on my machine, it'll damn near run on anything.
Makes me want to rip my hair out sometimes, though.
Nikita Prokopov summed up this very beautifully in his blog post -- tonsky.me/blog/disenchantment/
Thanks! It is a great article I read before. But will reread it again with pleasure.