Jean-Michel, I think we are still speaking at cross purposes here. I am being open in my judgement and have no views on her capabilities. While our own contexts are of value, everyone commenting here could be said to let their own life experience colour their reactions.
To her original claim, I'm sympathetic. But from her subsequent responses to people's posts, I can't help but feel there is more at play here. Surely it would be remiss of anyone reading this to only be attentive to the comments she makes which support her position and overlook the ones which cast doubt?
For instance, I offered a pretty innocuous and harmless judgement in one of my own replies to her. It was the kind of judgement I would be 100% open to receiving from any employee in my organisation, whether senior or junior, and would deem it entirely appropriate to receive comments far more harshly worded or abrasive (some people are busy and have to deliver very direct messages, some come from cultural contexts where its entirely normal, and so on).
Desire's own reaction was to declare it a violation of the code of conduct. Now she is of course free to do so. But it strikes me that if that is the approach being taken to what may be constructive advice (advice she asked for), and if that attitude was also replicated in her workplace, then I am not at all surprised she is clashing with her colleagues and that they do not consider her mature enough to be considered anything other than "junior".
In many ways, it is great that she is raising her concern here. She gets to have a full and frank discussion, outside of the workplace, and see that people may perceive her in varied ways. And that there isn't necessarily any malice or ill-feeling in their viewpoints, even if they make critical comments. This can be a positive learning experience and may even resolve the issues she is having in her workplace if taken on board. This is in fact the kind of maturity that is necessary to become "mid-level" or "senior" in any role and as others have said (and which I think she would agree with), it is not simply about the years spent in a role that defines your level.
Seniority and management can be hell. It asks tough decisions of people and burdens you with substantial responsibilities. Progression in a workplace is largely about taking on increasing degrees of management responsibility. It absolutely requires you to be able to take on criticism without flinching. To be critical of your own performance. To be open to viewpoints you may not wish to hear. And it requires you to be able to let others take credit, even if you think you are doing all the work.
That's a shame Desire. I think there is a lot to be learnt from that person's post. They may have phrased their words less carefully than they could have. But I don't think being addressed in that manner (whether aimed at you, or me) is "toxic" or overly harsh. I've certainly had far harsher language used against myself before ;-) ....and learnt some good lessons from it.
They made a good point about something called "intermediate syndrome". It is something that affects all people in every area of life; the point where you go from feeling like you know very little, to feeling like you know a lot. Where suddenly you brim with confidence and may start expecting from others, or making demands, that actually you aren't ready to make. It's at that point that some of life's biggest mistakes creep in (I am familiar with it from the aviation industry, as it is the point in a pilot's development well where they are most dangerous to themselves and others - thinking they are better than they really are).
You're very right, I don't know everything (or much at all even). So I will leave the discussion there, as we're clearly not finding it constructive.
However, I think it would really be good for you to come back to this and review it all in a few weeks, months, or even years time. You may or may not feel different in future and there is a lot of varied (and therefore usual) information in everyone's posts here.
You're right, I will come back, remember how ignored I was, how some men on the internet claimed to know more about me than myself, and then I'll be thankful that I found a place where I get the credit and respect that I deserve.
For further actions, you may consider blocking this person and/or reporting abuse
We're a place where coders share, stay up-to-date and grow their careers.
Jean-Michel, I think we are still speaking at cross purposes here. I am being open in my judgement and have no views on her capabilities. While our own contexts are of value, everyone commenting here could be said to let their own life experience colour their reactions.
To her original claim, I'm sympathetic. But from her subsequent responses to people's posts, I can't help but feel there is more at play here. Surely it would be remiss of anyone reading this to only be attentive to the comments she makes which support her position and overlook the ones which cast doubt?
For instance, I offered a pretty innocuous and harmless judgement in one of my own replies to her. It was the kind of judgement I would be 100% open to receiving from any employee in my organisation, whether senior or junior, and would deem it entirely appropriate to receive comments far more harshly worded or abrasive (some people are busy and have to deliver very direct messages, some come from cultural contexts where its entirely normal, and so on).
Desire's own reaction was to declare it a violation of the code of conduct. Now she is of course free to do so. But it strikes me that if that is the approach being taken to what may be constructive advice (advice she asked for), and if that attitude was also replicated in her workplace, then I am not at all surprised she is clashing with her colleagues and that they do not consider her mature enough to be considered anything other than "junior".
In many ways, it is great that she is raising her concern here. She gets to have a full and frank discussion, outside of the workplace, and see that people may perceive her in varied ways. And that there isn't necessarily any malice or ill-feeling in their viewpoints, even if they make critical comments. This can be a positive learning experience and may even resolve the issues she is having in her workplace if taken on board. This is in fact the kind of maturity that is necessary to become "mid-level" or "senior" in any role and as others have said (and which I think she would agree with), it is not simply about the years spent in a role that defines your level.
Seniority and management can be hell. It asks tough decisions of people and burdens you with substantial responsibilities. Progression in a workplace is largely about taking on increasing degrees of management responsibility. It absolutely requires you to be able to take on criticism without flinching. To be critical of your own performance. To be open to viewpoints you may not wish to hear. And it requires you to be able to let others take credit, even if you think you are doing all the work.
I'm not going to answer anything but just one thing:
You were being supportive to someone who was openly toxic against me, and that's actually a violation of CoC.
Good day, sir.
That's a shame Desire. I think there is a lot to be learnt from that person's post. They may have phrased their words less carefully than they could have. But I don't think being addressed in that manner (whether aimed at you, or me) is "toxic" or overly harsh. I've certainly had far harsher language used against myself before ;-) ....and learnt some good lessons from it.
They made a good point about something called "intermediate syndrome". It is something that affects all people in every area of life; the point where you go from feeling like you know very little, to feeling like you know a lot. Where suddenly you brim with confidence and may start expecting from others, or making demands, that actually you aren't ready to make. It's at that point that some of life's biggest mistakes creep in (I am familiar with it from the aviation industry, as it is the point in a pilot's development well where they are most dangerous to themselves and others - thinking they are better than they really are).
You're talking too much knowing anything about my life, skills, work and actually anything.
I'll give you an advice: don't talk to others as if you know everything, you don't.
Good day.
You're very right, I don't know everything (or much at all even). So I will leave the discussion there, as we're clearly not finding it constructive.
However, I think it would really be good for you to come back to this and review it all in a few weeks, months, or even years time. You may or may not feel different in future and there is a lot of varied (and therefore usual) information in everyone's posts here.
You're right, I will come back, remember how ignored I was, how some men on the internet claimed to know more about me than myself, and then I'll be thankful that I found a place where I get the credit and respect that I deserve.