So, I started CF back with 3.1 with PWS. It was fun, easy to learn and could make apps fast. After moving back to Canada from being in the US for 13 years doing ColdFusion, it took 8m to get a contract, after that ended, I have not been able to secure a gig with CF. For all intents and purposes, CF is dead in Canada. Everyone cringes when you bring it up.
So I have been learning Python/Django. All I can say is wow. No way I can go back to CF after that. So much more robust. The tools for development are 2nd to none. I actually have fun coding again. Don't forget that I believe ColdFusion is the only app server left that you have to actually buy. Not accounting for Lucee of course. But management does not know about Lucee. They do know python, node, .net, Java etc. All free. Then you also have to consider the open source area. Try to find a Twilio package. If you do, it's likely outdated. Plenty more examples of that. Whereas all these other "popular" languages you can find almost anything. I find that a good way to judge a language is by the community and what they offer as far as open source, online learning and more. ColdFusion certainly lacks in that area especially since riaforge has been taken down and all the old school folks like Ray Camden have fled. Anyway, just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
Coldfusion software engineer - yes, Coldfusion. When I'm not debating the finer points of software development, I can be found pedaling furiously along a winding country road.
I appreciate your insights, I really do. We can't move forward with CF until we address our flaws, and CF is not perfect. I had to chuckle at your mention of Twilio, though - I integrated with Twilio over a year ago in a CF app, and it only took a few minutes because there was a couple libraries out there. This one seems to be the most popular at this point: forgebox.io/view/twilio-sdk
As far as online learning goes, I'd definitely like to address that. Cfdocs.org is a great reference site, but it's hard to find quality, up-to-date tutorials to help show the bigger picture.
Taking down riaforge was a poor move by Adobe, in my opinion, but it was only for really old stuff anyway - modern CF libraries are on GitHub and ForgeBox.io.
I'm curious, did you leave the scene before CommandBox and ColdBox came along?
No, I've known about it. Just seemed daunting. Like learning a new language. Doesn't that Twilio package need coldbox? Twilio may be a bad example, but there are definitely not as many as the other languages.
Coldfusion software engineer - yes, Coldfusion. When I'm not debating the finer points of software development, I can be found pedaling furiously along a winding country road.
You don't like learning a framework because it's like learning a new language - and so you actually learned an entirely new language?
Maybe Twilio is a bad example for your purposes, but it illustrates mine perfectly. No I don't believe it needs Coldbox, but it would need Wirebox, a standalone DI framework.
Yes, as I stated, I don't have a choice but to learn something new because there are zero jobs or contracts here for CF. No point in figuring out coldbox if it's not going to get me anywhere. How does 1 or 2 OS projects for Twilio illustrate that CF is thriving? And now I have to introduce wirebox. CF was meant to be RAD, and to me, it's no longer that. Going with Eclipse for the IDE was a huge mistake IMO. They should have learned from ColdFusion Studio, or Android Studio and partnered with JetBrains. At least take time to make some a great plugin for VSCode.
Anyway, people like what they like. If you can make money doing CF, then do it. Just learn a something else as well.
So, I started CF back with 3.1 with PWS. It was fun, easy to learn and could make apps fast. After moving back to Canada from being in the US for 13 years doing ColdFusion, it took 8m to get a contract, after that ended, I have not been able to secure a gig with CF. For all intents and purposes, CF is dead in Canada. Everyone cringes when you bring it up.
So I have been learning Python/Django. All I can say is wow. No way I can go back to CF after that. So much more robust. The tools for development are 2nd to none. I actually have fun coding again. Don't forget that I believe ColdFusion is the only app server left that you have to actually buy. Not accounting for Lucee of course. But management does not know about Lucee. They do know python, node, .net, Java etc. All free. Then you also have to consider the open source area. Try to find a Twilio package. If you do, it's likely outdated. Plenty more examples of that. Whereas all these other "popular" languages you can find almost anything. I find that a good way to judge a language is by the community and what they offer as far as open source, online learning and more. ColdFusion certainly lacks in that area especially since riaforge has been taken down and all the old school folks like Ray Camden have fled. Anyway, just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
I appreciate your insights, I really do. We can't move forward with CF until we address our flaws, and CF is not perfect. I had to chuckle at your mention of Twilio, though - I integrated with Twilio over a year ago in a CF app, and it only took a few minutes because there was a couple libraries out there. This one seems to be the most popular at this point: forgebox.io/view/twilio-sdk
As far as online learning goes, I'd definitely like to address that. Cfdocs.org is a great reference site, but it's hard to find quality, up-to-date tutorials to help show the bigger picture.
Taking down riaforge was a poor move by Adobe, in my opinion, but it was only for really old stuff anyway - modern CF libraries are on GitHub and ForgeBox.io.
I'm curious, did you leave the scene before CommandBox and ColdBox came along?
No, I've known about it. Just seemed daunting. Like learning a new language. Doesn't that Twilio package need coldbox? Twilio may be a bad example, but there are definitely not as many as the other languages.
You don't like learning a framework because it's like learning a new language - and so you actually learned an entirely new language?
Maybe Twilio is a bad example for your purposes, but it illustrates mine perfectly. No I don't believe it needs Coldbox, but it would need Wirebox, a standalone DI framework.
Yes, as I stated, I don't have a choice but to learn something new because there are zero jobs or contracts here for CF. No point in figuring out coldbox if it's not going to get me anywhere. How does 1 or 2 OS projects for Twilio illustrate that CF is thriving? And now I have to introduce wirebox. CF was meant to be RAD, and to me, it's no longer that. Going with Eclipse for the IDE was a huge mistake IMO. They should have learned from ColdFusion Studio, or Android Studio and partnered with JetBrains. At least take time to make some a great plugin for VSCode.
Anyway, people like what they like. If you can make money doing CF, then do it. Just learn a something else as well.
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