This is utter nonsense, it has nothing to do with being introverted, introversion != shyness, there are both introverts and extroverts that are shy, it has nothing to do with it; introversion is not a defect, fixable nor something we should want to "cure". Not being able to get useful requirements has nothing to do with being "chatty" what are you talking about?, you can talk for hours with a client and not get any useful information or you can talk 5min and get all you need, relate amount of chat with quality of requirements? really?
If you are one of these introverts, then I have bad news for you. You may end up
stuck with buggy code forever.
Why?, if you don't get the requirements right you'll have SW that doesn't meet the clients needs, not buggy code, you get buggy code if you don't write it well. If you sell Postgres as a website doesn't make Postgres "buggy".
Maybe a little less "chat" and a little more research is needed. Maybe actually talk with some fellow introverts.
I have bad news for you,
You have been talking a lot, not listening at all.
"Not being able to get useful requirements has nothing to do with being "chatty" what are you talking about?"
Are you sure about it? Don’t you think that if I as developer would be more chatty, I can get more useful requirements from client?
Maybe not ,maybe I just need more to think about their bussiness.
Also, devs need different information, not always given by the client, the client usually have no idea how the system is gonna be implemented, and are usually not interested on it. Of course it depends of the job and the situation, but in general the topics that the client knows and are interested in are not the ones related directly to devs, that's why there are steps between, not always are just bureaucracy (sometimes it is). Clients don't care if you TDD, OOP, or use X PL instead of Y; they usually don't care if you deploy with Docker or what framework you'll use, designers, sw architects, project managers, etc. Exists for a reason, should be at least, and depends of the client, the job, the size of the project, etc. But to ask devs to deal with, sales, marketing, manage the project, design the system and architecture, deploy and program is unrealistic and counter-productive
You are mostly pointing on implementation details and i agree. I also agree that developers cant do everything. But I think that developer have to heavily understand bussiness rules to do a good job. Bugs was not correct twrm i used. I meant those error when client was expecting software to work very differently than its implemented. Most of the time it is lack of precise conversations. Conversations are managed by managers and manager is maybe neccesary.
But I think that developer have to heavily understand business rules to do a good job
that's right but you have to ask yourself, so if you have 20 devs, all of them should talk to the client?, that will not be a happy client, that's why there are positions to do that, talk to the client and summarize and transform all the messy requirements that the client have, and sometimes only think they have, and rely it to the devs, that's why abstraction are vital, to implement a low level part of your code shouldn't need to know the whole system, the devs who wrote the libraries you use have no idea in what you are working on.
Clients usually have a vague at best idea of what they want/need, and with a lot of "thingies" and "stuff", to get good requirements is an art on itself, of course it could be better to devs to talk to the users, but sometimes is not an option and sometimes it would muddy the waters. In fact in my experience you don't want to increase the communication with clients, you want to improve it, a thousand meetings will likely give you a thousand new and different sets of requirements. The perfect scenario would be 1 perfect meeting where all the requirements are plainly and well defined. Also we have to respect clients time, they have their own business to deal with, not waste their time is very important.
True indeed. Now I am realizing that blog post is so personal. I am developer with smaller project. I am working alone and i am covering every technical discipline on project. Then I have a manager which one analyse client requirements and sometimes we made a miscomunicstion mistake.
I usually end up directing meetings and I'm usually the one that have a clear vision and plan of what the meeting will be about and what information we need to take out of it, usually my involvement on the meetings are the first 10-30min and then I let the extroverts to enjoy themselves talking about nothing, while I process the data collected and they give me time to check if nothing else could be discussed. I'm not lesser because my introversion, to me, I'm better because of it. I don't envy extroverted people, I imitate them not because of admiration, just because is a tool that get results in my environment.
being extro/introverted is about external stimuli and where do you "get your energy", extroverts get energized by talking to others, they get "pumped" up by getting surrounded by people, they tend to prefer larger crowds, noise, being alone got them depressed, sad, enjoy conversation just by itself. Introverts, like me, on the other hand enjoy quiet, get drained by being surrounded by others, being in a crows feels like running a marathon, I really dislike chitchat, talking about nothing is very tiresome and uninteresting to me, I prefer giving a 2hr lecture about physics than a 10min talk about gossip or "nothing" in general, I really dislike open floor offices, is very distracting and my performance drops to zero; I can be alone and happy for a long time; I've been without human contact about a month now (because of the COVID) and has been a joy. Said that, I have to act "extroverted" because that's what the worlds value, I've been the center of the party, I actually like giving speeches and lectures to big audiences. But after them I'm dead.
Being shy is about being afraid, feel inadequate or not knowing how to be around people, you may want to interact with others, you may be extrovert but not knowing how to act or being afraid of being rejected. I think that must be a very hard place to be, not being able to be yourself because of the fear I have a glimpse because as introverted I've been forced to "act" extroverted to avoid been dismissed, we usually are very good at pretending to enjoy some things because the world is designed for extroverts, I like my reunions short and to the point, not those 4hrs meetings that end up in nothing. I prefer 1 to 1 interesting conversation over useless talk about sports, weather or some gossip. Introverts don't need constant external stimuli we get tired with it. We are not something to fix, nor inferior, I kick ass giving presentations.
Did you put some of your presentations publicly online? Rgank you for explantion. I am afraid I have a language boundaries and it is hard for me to talk on this level. Those articles are my training to do better.
By your presented definition, i am not sure where to put myself in. Sometimes I love to be alone, sometimes I would like to gossip with mug full of beer with my friends.
I like to do presentations too one day , but for now, blogposting is hard enough
Did you put some of your presentations publicly online?
not really, only some teaching in the university, technical talks to clients personnel, a lot of presentations to my fellow students en the university and some STEM talks to high school kids.
i am not sure where to put myself in
As most psychological definitions is not clear cut, and is a spectrum, you could be located in the middle or lean to some degree to one side or another. I also enjoy beer with friends but is how you end up later (beers aside ;) ), after socialize I really need alone time, REALLY need it, I end up really tired, not just physically, I feel drained, others get excited and would do it again next day if possible, they get creative and inspired with people. I think is not as much about what you like, but what you need, you may like or not being with people, that doesn't mean that you are EV or IV; instead is about what you need, you need to have alone time or you need to spend time with people. When do you get energized, with more ideas. You may like to run, but afterwards you definitely will need a rest I think that is what defines if EV or IV, where is the "default mode"
Looks like you know a lot about psychology. When I am thinking about it I need sometimes time alone too. I called it "my seasons". Once I want to do anything to progress my carreer. Hyped into presentations and bloging. But after few months something happen and i find myself locked with my console rest of the days afrer work.
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This is utter nonsense, it has nothing to do with being introverted, introversion != shyness, there are both introverts and extroverts that are shy, it has nothing to do with it; introversion is not a defect, fixable nor something we should want to "cure". Not being able to get useful requirements has nothing to do with being "chatty" what are you talking about?, you can talk for hours with a client and not get any useful information or you can talk 5min and get all you need, relate amount of chat with quality of requirements? really?
Why?, if you don't get the requirements right you'll have SW that doesn't meet the clients needs, not buggy code, you get buggy code if you don't write it well. If you sell Postgres as a website doesn't make Postgres "buggy".
Maybe a little less "chat" and a little more research is needed. Maybe actually talk with some fellow introverts.
You have been talking a lot, not listening at all.
"Not being able to get useful requirements has nothing to do with being "chatty" what are you talking about?"
Are you sure about it? Don’t you think that if I as developer would be more chatty, I can get more useful requirements from client?
Maybe not ,maybe I just need more to think about their bussiness.
Also, devs need different information, not always given by the client, the client usually have no idea how the system is gonna be implemented, and are usually not interested on it. Of course it depends of the job and the situation, but in general the topics that the client knows and are interested in are not the ones related directly to devs, that's why there are steps between, not always are just bureaucracy (sometimes it is). Clients don't care if you TDD, OOP, or use X PL instead of Y; they usually don't care if you deploy with Docker or what framework you'll use, designers, sw architects, project managers, etc. Exists for a reason, should be at least, and depends of the client, the job, the size of the project, etc. But to ask devs to deal with, sales, marketing, manage the project, design the system and architecture, deploy and program is unrealistic and counter-productive
You are mostly pointing on implementation details and i agree. I also agree that developers cant do everything. But I think that developer have to heavily understand bussiness rules to do a good job. Bugs was not correct twrm i used. I meant those error when client was expecting software to work very differently than its implemented. Most of the time it is lack of precise conversations. Conversations are managed by managers and manager is maybe neccesary.
that's right but you have to ask yourself, so if you have 20 devs, all of them should talk to the client?, that will not be a happy client, that's why there are positions to do that, talk to the client and summarize and transform all the messy requirements that the client have, and sometimes only think they have, and rely it to the devs, that's why abstraction are vital, to implement a low level part of your code shouldn't need to know the whole system, the devs who wrote the libraries you use have no idea in what you are working on.
Clients usually have a vague at best idea of what they want/need, and with a lot of "thingies" and "stuff", to get good requirements is an art on itself, of course it could be better to devs to talk to the users, but sometimes is not an option and sometimes it would muddy the waters. In fact in my experience you don't want to increase the communication with clients, you want to improve it, a thousand meetings will likely give you a thousand new and different sets of requirements. The perfect scenario would be 1 perfect meeting where all the requirements are plainly and well defined. Also we have to respect clients time, they have their own business to deal with, not waste their time is very important.
True indeed. Now I am realizing that blog post is so personal. I am developer with smaller project. I am working alone and i am covering every technical discipline on project. Then I have a manager which one analyse client requirements and sometimes we made a miscomunicstion mistake.
I usually end up directing meetings and I'm usually the one that have a clear vision and plan of what the meeting will be about and what information we need to take out of it, usually my involvement on the meetings are the first 10-30min and then I let the extroverts to enjoy themselves talking about nothing, while I process the data collected and they give me time to check if nothing else could be discussed. I'm not lesser because my introversion, to me, I'm better because of it. I don't envy extroverted people, I imitate them not because of admiration, just because is a tool that get results in my environment.
Thank you for your critique, i will think about your words. Also thank you that u read whole article.
Extroverts can be really shy too? How is that so?
being extro/introverted is about external stimuli and where do you "get your energy", extroverts get energized by talking to others, they get "pumped" up by getting surrounded by people, they tend to prefer larger crowds, noise, being alone got them depressed, sad, enjoy conversation just by itself. Introverts, like me, on the other hand enjoy quiet, get drained by being surrounded by others, being in a crows feels like running a marathon, I really dislike chitchat, talking about nothing is very tiresome and uninteresting to me, I prefer giving a 2hr lecture about physics than a 10min talk about gossip or "nothing" in general, I really dislike open floor offices, is very distracting and my performance drops to zero; I can be alone and happy for a long time; I've been without human contact about a month now (because of the COVID) and has been a joy. Said that, I have to act "extroverted" because that's what the worlds value, I've been the center of the party, I actually like giving speeches and lectures to big audiences. But after them I'm dead.
Being shy is about being afraid, feel inadequate or not knowing how to be around people, you may want to interact with others, you may be extrovert but not knowing how to act or being afraid of being rejected. I think that must be a very hard place to be, not being able to be yourself because of the fear I have a glimpse because as introverted I've been forced to "act" extroverted to avoid been dismissed, we usually are very good at pretending to enjoy some things because the world is designed for extroverts, I like my reunions short and to the point, not those 4hrs meetings that end up in nothing. I prefer 1 to 1 interesting conversation over useless talk about sports, weather or some gossip. Introverts don't need constant external stimuli we get tired with it. We are not something to fix, nor inferior, I kick ass giving presentations.
Did you put some of your presentations publicly online? Rgank you for explantion. I am afraid I have a language boundaries and it is hard for me to talk on this level. Those articles are my training to do better.
By your presented definition, i am not sure where to put myself in. Sometimes I love to be alone, sometimes I would like to gossip with mug full of beer with my friends.
I like to do presentations too one day , but for now, blogposting is hard enough
not really, only some teaching in the university, technical talks to clients personnel, a lot of presentations to my fellow students en the university and some STEM talks to high school kids.
As most psychological definitions is not clear cut, and is a spectrum, you could be located in the middle or lean to some degree to one side or another. I also enjoy beer with friends but is how you end up later (beers aside ;) ), after socialize I really need alone time, REALLY need it, I end up really tired, not just physically, I feel drained, others get excited and would do it again next day if possible, they get creative and inspired with people. I think is not as much about what you like, but what you need, you may like or not being with people, that doesn't mean that you are EV or IV; instead is about what you need, you need to have alone time or you need to spend time with people. When do you get energized, with more ideas. You may like to run, but afterwards you definitely will need a rest I think that is what defines if EV or IV, where is the "default mode"
Looks like you know a lot about psychology. When I am thinking about it I need sometimes time alone too. I called it "my seasons". Once I want to do anything to progress my carreer. Hyped into presentations and bloging. But after few months something happen and i find myself locked with my console rest of the days afrer work.