DEV Community πŸ‘©β€πŸ’»πŸ‘¨β€πŸ’»

DEV Community πŸ‘©β€πŸ’»πŸ‘¨β€πŸ’» is a community of 967,611 amazing developers

We're a place where coders share, stay up-to-date and grow their careers.

Create account Log in

Discussion on: Do you want a decentralized web with free speech support?

 
610470416 profile image
NotFound404 Author

The decentralized web is aimed to protect the freedom of speech, not to protect the privacy or any other things.
Because even with centralized web privacy data leakage happens every day.
No sign indicates that centralized web can have better privacy protection.
And this is beyond the ability of technologies.
With centralized power, people are more easily be bullied by those of ignorance.

I think web3 has nothing to do with the decentralized web.
It is only a blockchain network.
Decentralized web should totally be different from blockchain network.

Thread Thread
 
booleanhunter profile image
Ashwin Hariharan • Edited on

I'm all for protection of privacy and freedom of speech, but never in the absence of moderation.

Absence of content moderation sounds good in theory, but when combined with something like the concept of privacy it becomes an absolute nightmare.

Just like household ammonia and chlorine bleach are both useful by themselves, but put them together you can produce chlorine gas, a truly horrific chemical weapon that was rightly banned by the Geneva Protocol.

Learning ethics of technology implementation is really important. You find problems with centralisation - sure, no one's saying that it's all perfect. The alternatives proposed must demonstrably be better, not make things worse than they already are.

By your original post, it is clear that you are willing to have privacy at a great price - even if that could lead to great harm down the line. I wish you could also really respond to the other points I raised earlier. ✌️

Thread Thread
 
610470416 profile image
NotFound404 Author

What you are afraid of is happening in the centralized web as well.
If you think centralized web is not perfect, why you think the decentralized web should be perfect?
The decentralized web is only a tool to record what people really are. All problems are human society's problem. Technology can not be much helpful.

Thread Thread
 
610470416 profile image
NotFound404 Author

I would like to have privacy be protected, but the freedom of speech is the top priority for the decentralized web.

Thread Thread
 
qm3ster profile image
Mihail Malo

Dear @booleanhunter

Seeing the length of your comment, I was going to reply in detail, but I am not sure how constructive of a dialogue can be had with someone that posts inflammatory statements like:

I'm all ears. ☺️

and

so I'm going to exit from the conversation. ✌️

So, I will just clarify a few to potential readers:

I'm talking about information on the internet that can cause real tangible harm (like your private photos being exposed, or your home address/phone number) ... Heck, you could have put it up yourself too, unknowingly. Or maybe you put it earlier but now you regret it.

Yes, that is exactly what I was talking about. Having tools to censor that means having tools to censor anything.

Your argument builds on a lot of implicit assumptions. The ones I disagree with most are:

  1. That decentralized/censorship-resistant web has anything to do with blockchains/"web3", a hyped and scammy ecosystem that tries to apply mismatched technologies to problems that cannot be solved purely in cyberspace.

  2. That the following have any net positives:
    a. Gommunism (you called it a utopia, not sure on how many layers of irony, so I will play it safe)
    b. Police force
    c. Constitution (good idea, in theory, sometimes. Has one ever been heeded or enforced? Does a great deal to pacify the population though. Liek, we totally have a consitution, man!)
    d. Centralized "NFT" marketplaces like OpenSea
    e. Any uses of art NFTs to date
    f. Censoring "NSFW"
    g. Censoring "fake news"

Thread Thread
 
booleanhunter profile image
Ashwin Hariharan • Edited on

Hi @qm3ster, thanks for your response. Let me try and unpack things:

The reason I brought up communism is because it largely constitutes the libertarian school of thought that inspires blockchain-advocates. My comment on communism was to intended precisely to indicate why such ideals don't result in any utopia as the blockchain VCs would have us believe - not that I personally believe it would lead to utopia.

Your response seems to imply that I'm arguing in favor for web3 and blockchain - i most definitely am not.
I said that the alternatives proposed (namely, the ideals like blockchain or web3) end up making the current system even worse than they are. So you have me confused - what exactly are you disagreeing with me about? I think we're on the same page at-least when it comes to blockchain & crypto?

As for NFTs, NFT marketplaces, communism - I don't think I ever implied as seeing them as net positives, quite the opposite.

That decentralized/censorship-resistant web has anything to do with blockchains/web3

Agreed, this is exactly what I intend to convey when bringing up the point about OpenSea - the blockchain ecosystem is getting centralized. So again, I'm confused because I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with me about.

Maybe you're wondering why I brought up blockchain? That's because the OP has tagged this post under that category. Hope that clarifies it.


Maybe you disagree with me in that you view any centralisation or moderation as evil, even the tiniest amount? Then yes - here's where I will disagree.

Having tools to censor that means having tools to censor anything.

I'm for moderation, but against censorship. A limited, accountable and transparent form of centralization is desirable and a net good - the OpenSea comment was precisely to indicate that. Again to be clear - its not to say that I am in favor for the overall ecosystem of blockchain. Hopefully this clarifies my position.

Thanks again for your thoughts πŸ™‚

Thread Thread
 
610470416 profile image
NotFound404 Author

The reason to tag it with blockchain is becuase some of the data may use blockchain tenology to store sensitive data to keep it safe.

Thread Thread
 
qm3ster profile image
Mihail Malo

How does a blockchain keep it safe? Safe, in conventional speech, for the time being, usually implies privacy, not immutability.

As for @booleanhunter, I don't mind the existence of ephemeral (or at least temporarily broadcast) communication. I believe it can be improved in its privacy, with or without decentralization, and can coexist with censorship-resistant media. But it's the latter that I feel it is crucial everyone has access to, while the former is just a relaxing "nice to have".

Thread Thread
 
610470416 profile image
NotFound404 Author

means hard to be changed over multi nodes.