oh thats wild, I never even heard of lambdragon and yet I was able to help somehow - thank you so much for this heartfelt response!
re: who is the audience here, "show me how it works" vs "just give me benefits"
yes this is a constant (and tbh a little tiring) debate at Temporal too. Marketer instinct/conventional wisdom hews to the latter, whereas Developers often counterintuitively respond to the former.
I think this is tied to adoption stage. if you're working with early adopters, show everything, eliminate all magic. if you are working with late majority, hide it, they don't care.
You can also think about it as platform vs framework - platforms by definition "let non X do X", they aren't going to appreciate the sheer wizardry anyway, but they'll like the simplicity/speed. framework is a little more in userland control/responsibility.
re: what to call it: i like @dougmoscrop
's term Infrastructure FROM Code.
I remember when I first heard about Cadence via some Uber engineers, a long time ago. Someone said: You can Thread.sleep() for days.
And my mind literally exploded.
Because coming up with that simple idea as the solution to "workflows" is brilliant. It is the kind of insight that takes years to understand, and you can only arrive at that when you've already become an expert on workflow engines. Because you start seeing the essence of the problem clearly.
This goes back to the notion of "popular languages simply left important requirements out".
If we add them, we can solve complete categories of problems with zero cognitive overhead for developers.
But, just like Garbage Collection, which is transparent to almost everyone today, it is a messy affair under the hood and has taken years and the concerted work of some of the brightest minds in the industry to reach a point where we can reliably abstract ourselves from the problem.
Heap/Stack persistence is no different.
For example, the issue of dealing with persisted workflows across versioned logic requires some creative and prescriptive solutions.
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oh thats wild, I never even heard of lambdragon and yet I was able to help somehow - thank you so much for this heartfelt response!
yes this is a constant (and tbh a little tiring) debate at Temporal too. Marketer instinct/conventional wisdom hews to the latter, whereas Developers often counterintuitively respond to the former.
I think this is tied to adoption stage. if you're working with early adopters, show everything, eliminate all magic. if you are working with late majority, hide it, they don't care.
You can also think about it as platform vs framework - platforms by definition "let non X do X", they aren't going to appreciate the sheer wizardry anyway, but they'll like the simplicity/speed. framework is a little more in userland control/responsibility.
re: what to call it: i like @dougmoscrop 's term Infrastructure FROM Code.
I remember when I first heard about Cadence via some Uber engineers, a long time ago. Someone said: You can Thread.sleep() for days.
And my mind literally exploded.
Because coming up with that simple idea as the solution to "workflows" is brilliant. It is the kind of insight that takes years to understand, and you can only arrive at that when you've already become an expert on workflow engines. Because you start seeing the essence of the problem clearly.
This goes back to the notion of "popular languages simply left important requirements out".
If we add them, we can solve complete categories of problems with zero cognitive overhead for developers.
But, just like Garbage Collection, which is transparent to almost everyone today, it is a messy affair under the hood and has taken years and the concerted work of some of the brightest minds in the industry to reach a point where we can reliably abstract ourselves from the problem.
Heap/Stack persistence is no different.
For example, the issue of dealing with persisted workflows across versioned logic requires some creative and prescriptive solutions.