DEV Community

Discussion on: Wait for MongoDB, Postgres or MySql to start on Docker

 
seankilleen profile image
Sean Killeen

So like I said previously, there's no real point in continuing this conversation -- you were never the intended target audience, as you would rather argue against changing to maybe help other people feel welcome. That's fine then; I'm not going to change your mind and I have no intention of making some grand argument here except "maybe this would help other people feel good with no effort, and maybe that's not such a hard/bad thing."

If you'd like to make arguments about why we should never change things because there will always be people that perceive it differently, you're simply not the intended recipient of my message. I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people, and what they might feel, despite what the dictionary definition of a word may mean. And I feel like the fact that you created your account today, and seemingly only to join in this discussion, further solidifies that.

So I wish you the best, and will likely be spending no more of my time on this conversation.

Thread Thread
 
warthog618 profile image
Kent Gibson

Yes I created this account explicitly to reply, as it was the first time I've been to this site (Google is my friend) and it was a necessary step to replying.
How does that invalidate or give less weight to my argument?
You are implying I'm only here to troll you?
I am here because I found your request to be offensive.
To reply to a thread that is months old requesting a one word change to maybe make some people feel better about themselves is both absurd and disrespectful to the author.

It is telling that you are unwilling to converse with those outside your target audience. But as long as you feel good about yourself. Have a good one.

Thread Thread
 
seankilleen profile image
Sean Killeen

I look forward to seeing your other contributions to the community here, and wish you all the best in the future.

Thread Thread
 
warthog618 profile image
Kent Gibson

You do realise how easy it is to interpret that first clause as sarcasm, implying that my opinions are worth less than yours as I'm new here?
I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but my overwhelming suspicion is that, consciously or subconsciously, that was the intent.

Do you see the problem with trying to tweak wording yet?
In the process of trying to fix one word your own words can be interpreted as inherently biased and unwelcoming.
So consider adding hypocrisy to the list of problems with your approach.

And have a good one. (and yes - that can potentially be misinterpreted as well - but I'll leave that up to you ;-)

Thread Thread
 
stenpittet profile image
Sten

Hi @Kent, @Sean, I just want to help find a middle ground here. Dev.to is a great community and it's a bit disconcerting to find such discussion here. Especially considering that most of it is not really about the article itself (thanks Hugo for writing it).

I think we can all agree that being inclusive is better than the opposite, and I think that Sean meant well by reaching out. I believe that a direct outreach via DM or email would have been better, and I encourage that type of approach in the future as it gives the author an opportunity to respond in a private space.

However, I would not describe the request as offensive in itself. @Kent, it's great that you joined the community, but please take some time to get familiar with it. The code of conduct itself promotes "using welcoming and inclusive language", which is what we're talking about here.

It would be great if we do not push this debate further. @Kent I think you made a good point about how to approach authors, but @Sean's initiative is quite in line with what the community is pushing for.

Let's not forget to thank Hugo for his work.

Thread Thread
 
peter profile image
Peter Kim Frank

Thanks @stenpittet , well put on all counts. Our Code of Conduct clearly outlines our position that all community members should make an effort to use welcoming and inclusive language. I don't think the usage of "guys" presents a violation whatsoever (I've surely used such language without second thought many times), but I absolutely agree that Sean's (@seankilleen ) heart is in the right place with his experiment. I, for one, think it's a great nudge for all of us, and the outcome is hopefully that we're all a bit more mindful about the language we use and how it affects others.

Kent (@warthog618 ), welcome to the community, and thank you for joining the conversation. I'm encouraged that you and Sean each had an outlet to express your points without it devolving into ad-hominems and the like. We're all too familiar with the pedantic, zero-sum, spirals that can oftentimes affect other online communities, and we're hoping to avoid that here. Thank you both for remaining civil and respectful.

I recognize that all of us are trying to make a legitimate attempt to further a discussion that's important to us, but it looks like this specific back-and-forth has run its course. I'll echo Sten's hope that we can leave this for now.

Hugo (@hugodias ), thanks for a great article!