From mental health & arts to software engineer in under a year. Passionate about tech for good. Will inevitably end up writing about how coding makes me feel too…
Hey Massimo, I agree with you. My comment from 2 days ago disappeared and I had to repost it all the way down because I wasn't able to reply to this thread. I now am, and since you replied to my comment, let me reiterate what I said before:
I feel like my comment from yesterday disappeared? Reposting in the hope it will serve as a reminder that people can and do have discussions in a civil and respectful way (just maybe not on Twitter).
I appreciate you taking the time to reply to me, I now feel like I understand where you're coming from more than I did before.
I think the main disconnect here between the way you and I view interactions is that my understanding of society is that all biases and systemic oppression is always at play in any interaction.
Nope, I'm behind you on this one. I agree that by default we bring our whole selves, including our biases and cultural backgrounds, to each interaction. And I actually think that perhaps it's those same biases that lead to our disconnect too, which I now interpret to stem from the following paragraph.
I strongly disagree that it was a normal response - "thank you for using your platform to ruin my day 🥰" is absolutely manipulative, passive-aggressive, and extremely entitled. The entitlement starts from the implication her purpose was to ruin his day and straight to the expectation that she should know it would ruin his day and respect him enough not to post it (despite her disclaimer that she didn't agree with all of the points nor the tone). They aren't friends, so there's no reason for her to be that familiar with him to consider him in that way. I only see this happening to women, and most often to women of color.
This must be the root of my scepticism towards your analysis - I disagree with a lot of assumptions you make in this paragraph. I can see how these assumptions lead you to the conclusions you drew, but our priors are just not the same, so we end up in different places. It could be that this is because my own lived experience and cultural background lead me to see the same words as you, yet interpret them very differently. The sentence you label as "manipulative" and "entitled" only strikes me as passive-aggressive, sarcastic and intended to convey frustration. My background leads me to think that it's okay to occasionally be passive-aggressive, sarcastic and frustrated - regardless of whether this frustration is directed at someone from within your in-group, or someone entirely different to you. Being openly, publicly frustrated with someone who is not a member of your in-group doesn't by default signal "sexism" or "racism" to me. I'm all for humanising social media, and part of that is revealing when we're hurt, which is all this sentence, in my interpretation, does. I'd like to think I'd have bitten my tongue before posting a reaction like his, but I can't rule out having reacted the same way, especially on a bad day. Would that make me racist and sexist?
And I do believe there's evidence that women are more likely to get unfairly criticised - I'm just still unable to see how this is an example of that.
Be it as it may, I think both parties involved might likely be slightly bemused if they were to know the extent to which their words are being analysed here, so I'll call it a day now. Let's agree to disagree. I am grateful for this discussion and love that you've created a space where it's okay to voice one's opinion, even if it opposes yours. I look forward to reading more from you.
<< obviously the last paragraph was written before knowing you'd take to Twitter to incite harassment when I spoke about an unrelated topic in an unrelated thread. Obviously no longer grateful for this discussion. But people keep replying and disagreeing, so I want to make sure my opinion is represented fairly here
Where I became a topic of conversation in the comments.
people keep replying and disagreeing
Which I have expected and allowed because in spite of the unfortunate error of your comment being hidden because of someone else’s behavior, I still felt this dialogue was healthy and enlightening.
I want to make sure my opinion is represented fairly here
I want to make sure of that, too, and that I am fairly represented in kind.
Given we both want that, I suggest you remove your last paragraph above, as it’s untrue and now getting to the point where I feel the need to remove our discussion from my post altogether.
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From mental health & arts to software engineer in under a year. Passionate about tech for good. Will inevitably end up writing about how coding makes me feel too…
I got harassment in my DMs because of you. So yes, you did incite harassment, which is ironic given the subject matter. If you think my characterisation of what happened is unfair, feel free to remove the comment or the discussion altogether. I will not, because I know I am speaking the truth and won't be intimidated by you.
I'm going to be frank here: I don't believe you. I didn't link to you, or your twitter, and the link to this thread has literally the least amount of engagement of all of my posts in the last 3 months. With 3 likes, 1 click-through, 0 retweets, 0 quote tweets, 0 references, and 22 impressions. My posts typically have hundreds of thousands of impressions, and often more.
I will not, because I know I am speaking the truth and won't be intimidated by you.
"In fact men will fight for a [lie] quite as quickly as for a living truth – often more so, since a [lie] is so intangible you cannot get at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, and so is changeable."
I'm not trying to intimidate you. I'm trying to reason with you. Which is clearly impossible. I don't want to hide your comment thread, but it has now become destructive commentary, and I cannot trust that it won't escalate.
Comment marked as low quality/non-constructive by the community. View Code of Conduct
From mental health & arts to software engineer in under a year. Passionate about tech for good. Will inevitably end up writing about how coding makes me feel too…
Imagine if you were a man. You posted something on Twitter and a woman got harassed because of it. You then point blank deny their reality and label it a lie. I bet if that happened, you’d write an article about it.
Hey Massimo, I just wanted to give you a heads-up that I'm being cornered into hiding this thread because the original poster has opted to retain a portion of her commentary that is accusatory, false, and destructive.
I've learned since hiding other comments, that this will result in your comment being hidden as well, and I welcome you to repost it, or post a link to it at the top level so others can engage with it.
You may also receive notification from the DEV system about this, and I apologize in advance.
As I said, there is absolutely zero harassment of you on my behalf anywhere available, I've been on Twitter and I know precisely where dog-piling starts, and how it escalates. Given that I didn't @ you, and I wasn't talking about you, and I wasn't even linked to your post by whisper networks, but rather someone else's who I had blocked who was harassing people and calling me this, that, and the other, there is no reasonable path for you to connect any private harassment you've received in a DM to my tweet.
You are making inflammatory accusations about me that are just untrue at this point. It's convenient for you to claim that I created a pile-on on you and that people are harassing you in your DMs because of me, when the only evidence of that is something only you have access to. I'm shutting this down because this isn't constructive for you, me, or anyone reading it.
Hey Massimo, I agree with you. My comment from 2 days ago disappeared and I had to repost it all the way down because I wasn't able to reply to this thread. I now am, and since you replied to my comment, let me reiterate what I said before:
I feel like my comment from yesterday disappeared? Reposting in the hope it will serve as a reminder that people can and do have discussions in a civil and respectful way (just maybe not on Twitter).
I appreciate you taking the time to reply to me, I now feel like I understand where you're coming from more than I did before.
Nope, I'm behind you on this one. I agree that by default we bring our whole selves, including our biases and cultural backgrounds, to each interaction. And I actually think that perhaps it's those same biases that lead to our disconnect too, which I now interpret to stem from the following paragraph.
This must be the root of my scepticism towards your analysis - I disagree with a lot of assumptions you make in this paragraph. I can see how these assumptions lead you to the conclusions you drew, but our priors are just not the same, so we end up in different places. It could be that this is because my own lived experience and cultural background lead me to see the same words as you, yet interpret them very differently. The sentence you label as "manipulative" and "entitled" only strikes me as passive-aggressive, sarcastic and intended to convey frustration. My background leads me to think that it's okay to occasionally be passive-aggressive, sarcastic and frustrated - regardless of whether this frustration is directed at someone from within your in-group, or someone entirely different to you. Being openly, publicly frustrated with someone who is not a member of your in-group doesn't by default signal "sexism" or "racism" to me. I'm all for humanising social media, and part of that is revealing when we're hurt, which is all this sentence, in my interpretation, does. I'd like to think I'd have bitten my tongue before posting a reaction like his, but I can't rule out having reacted the same way, especially on a bad day. Would that make me racist and sexist?
And I do believe there's evidence that women are more likely to get unfairly criticised - I'm just still unable to see how this is an example of that.
Be it as it may, I think both parties involved might likely be slightly bemused if they were to know the extent to which their words are being analysed here, so I'll call it a day now. Let's agree to disagree. I am grateful for this discussion and love that you've created a space where it's okay to voice one's opinion, even if it opposes yours. I look forward to reading more from you.
<< obviously the last paragraph was written before knowing you'd take to Twitter to incite harassment when I spoke about an unrelated topic in an unrelated thread. Obviously no longer grateful for this discussion. But people keep replying and disagreeing, so I want to make sure my opinion is represented fairly here
This is false.
Where I became a topic of conversation in the comments.
Which I have expected and allowed because in spite of the unfortunate error of your comment being hidden because of someone else’s behavior, I still felt this dialogue was healthy and enlightening.
I want to make sure of that, too, and that I am fairly represented in kind.
Given we both want that, I suggest you remove your last paragraph above, as it’s untrue and now getting to the point where I feel the need to remove our discussion from my post altogether.
I got harassment in my DMs because of you. So yes, you did incite harassment, which is ironic given the subject matter. If you think my characterisation of what happened is unfair, feel free to remove the comment or the discussion altogether. I will not, because I know I am speaking the truth and won't be intimidated by you.
I'm going to be frank here: I don't believe you. I didn't link to you, or your twitter, and the link to this thread has literally the least amount of engagement of all of my posts in the last 3 months. With 3 likes, 1 click-through, 0 retweets, 0 quote tweets, 0 references, and 22 impressions. My posts typically have hundreds of thousands of impressions, and often more.
"In fact men will fight for a [lie] quite as quickly as for a living truth – often more so, since a [lie] is so intangible you cannot get at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, and so is changeable."
I'm not trying to intimidate you. I'm trying to reason with you. Which is clearly impossible. I don't want to hide your comment thread, but it has now become destructive commentary, and I cannot trust that it won't escalate.
Imagine if you were a man. You posted something on Twitter and a woman got harassed because of it. You then point blank deny their reality and label it a lie. I bet if that happened, you’d write an article about it.
Hey Massimo, I just wanted to give you a heads-up that I'm being cornered into hiding this thread because the original poster has opted to retain a portion of her commentary that is accusatory, false, and destructive.
I've learned since hiding other comments, that this will result in your comment being hidden as well, and I welcome you to repost it, or post a link to it at the top level so others can engage with it.
You may also receive notification from the DEV system about this, and I apologize in advance.
@sanspanic
As I said, there is absolutely zero harassment of you on my behalf anywhere available, I've been on Twitter and I know precisely where dog-piling starts, and how it escalates. Given that I didn't @ you, and I wasn't talking about you, and I wasn't even linked to your post by whisper networks, but rather someone else's who I had blocked who was harassing people and calling me this, that, and the other, there is no reasonable path for you to connect any private harassment you've received in a DM to my tweet.
You are making inflammatory accusations about me that are just untrue at this point. It's convenient for you to claim that I created a pile-on on you and that people are harassing you in your DMs because of me, when the only evidence of that is something only you have access to. I'm shutting this down because this isn't constructive for you, me, or anyone reading it.
I don't think it's fair to say that if you have a lot of followers, you suddenly can't critique or dislike or talk about the cons of something.
She didn't insult Adam. She shared critique, parts of which she agreed with.
The click-baity title is unfortunate here though.
Wasn't intended to be click-baity.
I meant the original critique of Tailwind, not your article Cher. :)
Oh, whoops! Thank you for clarifying