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Discussion on: Why I'm Not One of the Guys

 
samuelfaure profile image
Samuel-Zacharie FAURE

"Language is a reflection of the society, not the cause of the society."

It is both.

"If you were bleeding internally, do you stop the bleeding without knowing why it's bleeding, or do you do your due diligence to try to find out why it happened in the first place?"

A better analogy would be: If you were bleeding because of a bullet wound, would you stop the bleeding before removing the bullet? Of course not, or problems will still arise. You need to tackle causes and consequences at the same time.

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nfrankel profile image
Nicolas Frankel

Your reasoning is wrong on so many levels... but at least I'll try to correct you on linguistics.

Equating the gender of a word with the sexual gender fuels your narrative but doesn't have any solid foundation. Here are a couple of counter-examples that makes your point moot:

  • The Turkish language has no gender. With your reasoning, Turkish society should be much more gender-equal than French society or German society. I hope that you can agree that it's not the case
  • Butter can have different genders depending on the part of Germany you live in. With your reasoning, it means that people would view butter differently depending on the gender involved. Really?
  • You mention Kanji to prove your point. You confuse how Kanjis were formed with how people interpret them: it's a holistic process, quite similar to how we read words. You learn to decipher words letter by letter but after a while, you recognize them instantly.
  • etc.
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samuelfaure profile image
Samuel-Zacharie FAURE • Edited

So basically you're turning what I say into an absolute so you can play the absurdist card?

It's quite a dishonest approach. It's like if I said that using your phone while driving is dangerous, but you can find examples where people did it and had no accidents, then you conclude what I say must be completely wrong.

It should be obvious that language doesnt determine gender equality by itself.

Im not confused about kanjis, thank you very much. Language works the same way, we dont consciously think about how we talk. Psychology proved many times that it still affects our way of thinking.

Etc.

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nfrankel profile image
Nicolas Frankel • Edited

It's quite a dishonest approach. It's like if I said that using your phone while driving is dangerous, but you can find examples where people did it and had no accidents, then you conclude what I say must be completely wrong.

I assumed you had enough scientific education to know that when you form an hypothesis, and there are counter-examples, then the hypothesis doesn't hold anymore.

It's you who make claims, so you're the one to prove them.

It should be obvious that language doesnt determine gender equality by itself.

Only to you. But I didn't expect any good faith thinking on your side. I'm just fed up with strawman arguments... Consider this my latest contribution to this thread.

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samuelfaure profile image
Samuel-Zacharie FAURE • Edited

I happen to have an engineering degree in chemistry and microbiology and worked as an actual research engineer, and your approach to the scientific method is completely wrong.

When there are multiple factors as causes for a given consequence, the lack of a direct linear correlation for one of the factors on some data points doesnt invalidate the correlation. That's statistics 101. Frankly I'm shocked that a developer could do such a basic logic mistake.

You need to learn a bit more about psychology, sociology and apparently mathematics.