Ryan is an engineer in the Sacramento Area with a focus in Python, Ruby, and Rust. Bash/Python Exercism mentor. Coding, physics, calculus, music, woodworking. Looking for work!
I see what you’re saying, but what if you tell them 2X and they would have offered you 3X because they really need you? Wouldn’t it still have been better to let them make an offer? I’ll agree with you that, if you must say a number first, then it’s not always the end of the world and your strategies are good ones. It’s good to do research, know your worth, and go in with goals. But I still don’t think I see any situation where it behooves you to say a number first... especially for salary negotiation. As far as respect and intentionality, though, you are totally right. How they treat you during negotiation is a big indicator of how they’ll treat you as an employee. If they try to squeeze every last penny out of you and don’t respect your needs/wants, that may be a warning sign.
but what if you tell them 2X and they would have offered you 3X because they really need you
Change jobs frequently, when it makes sense, and after properly preparing your current employer (help them hire a replacement and inform them on time).
If you're getting 2x what your perceived optimal is, you're already winning. By moving horizontally, you can keep challenging the market for what your highest optimal is. You'll find that you'll quickly settle for less than 100% maximum when you find a team you enjoy working with.
If you go in one conversation looking to get 100% of the maximum they'd be willing to pay you, even if it's way above your 2x optimal, then there's something to be said about your own greed.
Ryan is an engineer in the Sacramento Area with a focus in Python, Ruby, and Rust. Bash/Python Exercism mentor. Coding, physics, calculus, music, woodworking. Looking for work!
Hm. I don’t know that I agree that greed factors in at all. You make a good point that often a good team or good environment is worth a little less pay. And changing jobs is a good option for optimizing your situation. But, I’m not taking about beating them up or expecting 2-3X. All I’m saying is that you are potentially leaving money they are willing to pay you on the table. And that seems foolish if avoidable and if you can do it without being rude/uncooperative.
All I’m saying is that you are potentially leaving money they are willing to pay you on the table. And that seems foolish if avoidable and if you can do it without being rude/uncooperative.
If they have the same attitude about squeezing you to the lowest you could possibly go, without being directly rude/uncooperative, we're unhappy.
The same goes for their point of view.
It's not because you can, that you should. Empathy and meeting in the middle is also value.
In the case where they wouldn't mind giving you that extra money in any way (e.g. they wouldn't even have noticed), there is still value in knowing that you can prepare, ask your worth and walk away happy without being a slave to needing to get the maximum.
A perfectionist is in a prison of their own making. Being able to adjust to any situation will get you further.
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I see what you’re saying, but what if you tell them 2X and they would have offered you 3X because they really need you? Wouldn’t it still have been better to let them make an offer? I’ll agree with you that, if you must say a number first, then it’s not always the end of the world and your strategies are good ones. It’s good to do research, know your worth, and go in with goals. But I still don’t think I see any situation where it behooves you to say a number first... especially for salary negotiation. As far as respect and intentionality, though, you are totally right. How they treat you during negotiation is a big indicator of how they’ll treat you as an employee. If they try to squeeze every last penny out of you and don’t respect your needs/wants, that may be a warning sign.
Change jobs frequently, when it makes sense, and after properly preparing your current employer (help them hire a replacement and inform them on time).
If you're getting 2x what your perceived optimal is, you're already winning. By moving horizontally, you can keep challenging the market for what your highest optimal is. You'll find that you'll quickly settle for less than 100% maximum when you find a team you enjoy working with.
If you go in one conversation looking to get 100% of the maximum they'd be willing to pay you, even if it's way above your 2x optimal, then there's something to be said about your own greed.
Hm. I don’t know that I agree that greed factors in at all. You make a good point that often a good team or good environment is worth a little less pay. And changing jobs is a good option for optimizing your situation. But, I’m not taking about beating them up or expecting 2-3X. All I’m saying is that you are potentially leaving money they are willing to pay you on the table. And that seems foolish if avoidable and if you can do it without being rude/uncooperative.
If they have the same attitude about squeezing you to the lowest you could possibly go, without being directly rude/uncooperative, we're unhappy.
The same goes for their point of view.
It's not because you can, that you should. Empathy and meeting in the middle is also value.
In the case where they wouldn't mind giving you that extra money in any way (e.g. they wouldn't even have noticed), there is still value in knowing that you can prepare, ask your worth and walk away happy without being a slave to needing to get the maximum.
A perfectionist is in a prison of their own making. Being able to adjust to any situation will get you further.