I know that's not a great solution to the problem, but I don't think, from what I,we seen in surveys, any more people are moving away from ember than those who are choosing it for the first time.
Npm stats reveal a lot. Growth is there, but slow.
I think that statistics are often mis representative in their absolute values:
If the react dev pool gains 80% more people, but ember is only gains 10%.
The overall usage of ember as a percentage appears to shrink.
But it's still growth.
We have a tooooon of new devs in recent years that are eclipsing any technology that isn't the top technology.
http://perpetual.education is a design/programming school. We like to be part of the discussion over here at Dev.to / We have time-slots for free conversations for career advice IRL : )
The actual 'Ember' isn't marketable / not the skill set. And that's really subjective. It depends who the hiring manager is. If the resume said 'Joomla! and Ember' - then a 20 year old hiring manager might think those are dead. It doesn't mean it's true...
But what we mean - isn't the skill set. It's the CTOs and team-leads who have to actually choose it - and put their trust in it. They don't want to choose a technology that is being described as "dead" - and it's our job to tell them a different story. The facts don't matter that much in this case. It's all about "how it looks" and how it "feels" - and well, it looks like the community doesn't really care about anything but linkedIn / from the outside. But - people are totally ready to hear the story --- so, someone needs to tell it. People are seeing Reacts flaws - and although the mental model was working for them as they started - now they can see what a nightmare it can be / and wondering what to do! You might be one of the few people who can really explain that well.
http://perpetual.education is a design/programming school. We like to be part of the discussion over here at Dev.to / We have time-slots for free conversations for career advice IRL : )
We're on it. But it's not just "more material" - there's plenty of material. We need things that tell the right story - to the right people. Writing for Ember people... and writing for / not-yet Ember people.
http://perpetual.education is a design/programming school. We like to be part of the discussion over here at Dev.to / We have time-slots for free conversations for career advice IRL : )
Yes. We agree with all of those things. This was just a conversation starter for people who haven't tried it - and to see what came back. We already know you love it! And that it's an amazing set of tools. You really know your stuff! and you know so much about React too - so, yeah: After watching this - youtube.com/watch?v=OZaPaRh83sA it's clear that you know how to weigh things without bias.
Anyone who's actually been using react for a few years / will start to see the cracks! And actually working on a long-lived project is a lot different that downloading Vue or React 100 times. Let's see projects that get finished! But - also / Ember isn't for everything - and so, why not market it as what it is / A framework for when you want to built a serious long-lived application with a team.
But whether people are using it or not (of course they are!) - we just don't think that they are doing it justice in the marketing department. Maybe the people who created the best JS framework just don't also have the personal skills to explain to the people / why they should use it. Time will tell... (At the meetup we were joking about how "ember has been 'going away' since 2012" - but so have controllers...
We write about it - and we teach it at our school. We teach core JS, until we hit a wall, then show some history with jQuery and some solutions there, and hit a wall, and show a little Vue and hit a wall, and then show Ember - so that they can really understand WHY these conventions are there - and how this framework solves large and small concerns. When it's time, you were actually on our short-list of people to ask to help build out the advanced Ember.js elective. Somewhere there's a note scribbled that says "Preston or Garret?" haha!
We'll try our best to help people understand it. At some point - someone will probably have to just fork it - and rename it. How about "React-PRO" ? That might work. "For when you're sick of the shit / and you just want to use professional tools that work good."
"For when you're sick of the shit / and you just want to use professional tools that work good."
I super enjoyed reading this, and I'm glad ya'll are so invested in teaching folks how/why/when to use a particular tool for the task at hand :D
Re: marketing,
something I'm hoping to focus a bit on (now, and ) over the next year or so is to put out more technical blog articles to help out SEO/Marketing/Learning/etc.
there is a big void to fill with in-depth topics w/r/t ember (or at least w/ easy to find articles)... so.. idk. Me trying to write more and also balance not stressing over it is a tough balance too. :D
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I know that's not a great solution to the problem, but I don't think, from what I,we seen in surveys, any more people are moving away from ember than those who are choosing it for the first time.
Npm stats reveal a lot. Growth is there, but slow.
I think that statistics are often mis representative in their absolute values:
If the react dev pool gains 80% more people, but ember is only gains 10%.
The overall usage of ember as a percentage appears to shrink.
But it's still growth.
We have a tooooon of new devs in recent years that are eclipsing any technology that isn't the top technology.
The actual 'Ember' isn't marketable / not the skill set. And that's really subjective. It depends who the hiring manager is. If the resume said 'Joomla! and Ember' - then a 20 year old hiring manager might think those are dead. It doesn't mean it's true...
But what we mean - isn't the skill set. It's the CTOs and team-leads who have to actually choose it - and put their trust in it. They don't want to choose a technology that is being described as "dead" - and it's our job to tell them a different story. The facts don't matter that much in this case. It's all about "how it looks" and how it "feels" - and well, it looks like the community doesn't really care about anything but linkedIn / from the outside. But - people are totally ready to hear the story --- so, someone needs to tell it. People are seeing Reacts flaws - and although the mental model was working for them as they started - now they can see what a nightmare it can be / and wondering what to do! You might be one of the few people who can really explain that well.
We're on it. But it's not just "more material" - there's plenty of material. We need things that tell the right story - to the right people. Writing for Ember people... and writing for / not-yet Ember people.
Yes. We agree with all of those things. This was just a conversation starter for people who haven't tried it - and to see what came back. We already know you love it! And that it's an amazing set of tools. You really know your stuff! and you know so much about React too - so, yeah: After watching this - youtube.com/watch?v=OZaPaRh83sA it's clear that you know how to weigh things without bias.
Anyone who's actually been using react for a few years / will start to see the cracks! And actually working on a long-lived project is a lot different that downloading Vue or React 100 times. Let's see projects that get finished! But - also / Ember isn't for everything - and so, why not market it as what it is / A framework for when you want to built a serious long-lived application with a team.
But whether people are using it or not (of course they are!) - we just don't think that they are doing it justice in the marketing department. Maybe the people who created the best JS framework just don't also have the personal skills to explain to the people / why they should use it. Time will tell... (At the meetup we were joking about how "ember has been 'going away' since 2012" - but so have controllers...
We write about it - and we teach it at our school. We teach core JS, until we hit a wall, then show some history with jQuery and some solutions there, and hit a wall, and show a little Vue and hit a wall, and then show Ember - so that they can really understand WHY these conventions are there - and how this framework solves large and small concerns. When it's time, you were actually on our short-list of people to ask to help build out the advanced Ember.js elective. Somewhere there's a note scribbled that says "Preston or Garret?" haha!
We'll try our best to help people understand it. At some point - someone will probably have to just fork it - and rename it. How about "React-PRO" ? That might work. "For when you're sick of the shit / and you just want to use professional tools that work good."
I super enjoyed reading this, and I'm glad ya'll are so invested in teaching folks how/why/when to use a particular tool for the task at hand :D
Re: marketing,
something I'm hoping to focus a bit on (now, and ) over the next year or so is to put out more technical blog articles to help out SEO/Marketing/Learning/etc.
there is a big void to fill with in-depth topics w/r/t ember (or at least w/ easy to find articles)... so.. idk. Me trying to write more and also balance not stressing over it is a tough balance too. :D