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Discussion on: Why Every Software Engineer Should Learn Computer Architecture.

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leob profile image
leob • Edited on

"Every developer", how do we even define that? An accountant writing Excel macros is also writing code, hence is a coder or 'developer'! This idea is only feasible and remotely realistic if you apply it to specific well-defined segments of the industry, like SCADA programmers building mission critical stuff, industrial control applications, and that's an example where it would have added value.

P.S. "putting a stake in the heart of Ruby and Python", that's just toxic, and painful/denigrating for people who love these tools and get stuff done with it ... I'd say spare us your negativity and your elitist mindset, and don't pollute dev.to with it!

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja

Anyone selling solutions based on Ruby is a charlatan. There are no advantages to Ruby from a business perspective. The devs are really expensive, the performance is horrible, and gets exponentially more costly as a startup approaches unicorn status, and then they get to rewrite in a real platform at the last minute as the rails collapse around you.

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leob profile image
leob

Okay, nice how you discredit yourself with this comment, because every single argument you're putting forward here can be refuted with the simple counter argument "it depends". It all depends on the business and technical requirements - it's 100% clear that there are plenty of use cases where Rails is perfectly fine as a solution, and plenty other cases where it isn't. It's never black and white, as always, it depends ... I rest my case.

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja

For any publicly traded company, using Ruby should be grounds for a share-holder suit for intentionally wasting money.

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leob profile image
leob

Give me a break, get real, you clearly have a totally irrational bias or hatred towards ... a tool? What has Ruby done to you to deserve this? LOL

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja

I think it applies to anybody performing development work, including training AI modules, that has a material impact on financial statements or other regulated areas of operations.

So, an accountant writing macros on a worksheet is already licensed as an accountant and that is a skill expected in that field. A mechanical engineer coding on a sensor is possibly licensed and thus covered. A front end dev pulling ing 1200 NPM packages for a site collecting PII of customers for a promotion should be licensed and educated to understand the risks of failing to protect that PII from 1200 3rd party vendors. A DevOps engineer writing CI/CD pipelines for apps that are supply chain components should be licensed and educated on proper testing and bundling of build artifacts.

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leob profile image
leob

Okay, nice try with the accountant writing Excel macros already being licensed - how about a junior intern writing those Excel macros? ... not licensed in anyway, but he/she does write code.

So my argument remains - how do you define which devs or coders or whatever are required to get that official license, and which don't ... software development is just way too broad an activity and an industry to be regulated centrally, it's going to cause a ridiculous amount of cost, hassle and bureaucracy with hardly any tangible benefits.

The only thing I can imagine is that you could require this for very narrowly defined areas of expertise within the software development industry, for instance SCADA programmers working on mission critical systems, like I said before. In no way is it practically possible to require this across the board, it isn't even possible to clearly define who is a developer or software engineer and who isn't (too many grey areas and edge cases).

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leob profile image
leob

Okay, now you're talking:

"anybody performing development work, including training AI modules, that has a material impact on financial statements or other regulated areas of operations"

So, that does not sound like a blanket across-the-board entry exam or license for every developer (if 'developer' can even be clearly defined) - it sounds like specific requirements or certifications for specific industries or roles, so for situations where it matters.

That's different from what you said before, and now we're getting pretty close to agreeing on this, because under those circumstances I could see the merits of licensing or certifications. But, we're then talking about a much more narrowly defined segment of "hard core devs working on mission critical stuff".

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sharpninja profile image
The Sharp Ninja

It's a lot broader than you think. Any dev working on or with access to code that effects financials and/or PII or other regulated data (HIPAA comes to mind) would be included. That means writing a login form at a non profit. That means writing devops scripts at a local bank. The cases where someone wouldn't fall into the realm of needing licensure are slim. Licensed pros coding their field of expertise get covered, but general programming help has to either be narrowly scoped or go take the test.

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leob profile image
leob

No the cases aren't slim, they're the majority ... you're serious that most people now working in development are unqualified to do so and should preferably be ousted and only let back in after passing your "exam"? I think the cure here is much, much worse than the ailment ... unless you happen to be in the business of developing all of these certifications and making big money off of that ...

The issues you're trying to solve are minor and mostly theoretical, the tool to solve them are well, a very big and blunt sledgehammer ... if ever the powers to be would mandate this kind of thing (lord forbid), it would just be a total and utter disaster.

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leob profile image
leob

Yes, everyone should go take the test, because, well ... because you say so. This gets weirder by the minute, I'm so glad that you're not in charge, and that this idea has zero chance of becoming a reality. Get a life, let everyone just do their job without assuming they're incompetent, give us all a break LOL