I am not entirely against Javascript. I use Javascript because I need to, not a fan of how it does things but I need it.
It's a thing that grew out of experience, as I mentioned - some people tried to shove it down my throat by talking of its superiority over everything else. Then I realized what the community is doing.
Every year a new cool Javascript framework/library comes out, and everyone - especially the newbies run towards them while making it a big fuss about it and try to push everyone to that as well.
Node is super fast, use it everywhere!
I don't see that happening at the PHP community, or anywhere else to be honest.
PHP is meant for the web, and it only does web and does it well. Javascript on the other hand... browser -> server -> desktop apps... I just hope it doesn't end up in embedded systems.
Well, that last bit is not true. You can use PHP for more than just Web.
As for the other part, well, you can call them noobies if it makes you feel better, but for someone who has been doing this for more than 20 years, all developers who complain about one framework or the other look like noobs. All frameworks have their pros and cons, and the best point made in your post is that the cons almost always come from people who don't know what they are doing, but that point hurts you when you start complaining about Node because well... do the math.
Again, I'm not complaining about Node. I'm complaining about the people who constantly keep pushing Node to others.
The difference lies in the fact that I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone about JavaScript. People who keep pushing JS everywhere do.
I believe JS does fine for client side, that's what it was meant for. But the community started trying to bring it to everything else too. And the newcomers somehow fall into the trap of blindly following any cool new framework that comes their way and they keep pushing it everywhere.
I'm sure more experienced developers like yourself understand that languages are just tools and some tools are more fit for some things better than other.
And yes, you can use PHP for other things too. But you wouldn't do it in production in your right state of mind.
Node works fine in other areas, too. It's got plenty of things I dislike and wouldn't be my first go-to in most cases, but implying that it doesn't belong in those areas is the same backwards thinking as "PHP is trash".
My point is, you have kind of a roundabout way of putting down the other guy in the same way that you've probably been put down, and most likely, neither really deserve it.
As for that production comment, I'm going to disagree with you again. Consider if you have a framework that includes a PHP library that is the center for managing certain entity types. That functionality may include file i/o, database ops, external API integrations, etc., now consider your CI needs to perform some manipulations in certain workflows, would it be smarter to rewrite that functionality in another language or use PHP and import the library you already have?
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Putting people on blast for making a blanket put down on PHP while doing the exact same thing to JavaScript deflates your points.
I am not entirely against Javascript. I use Javascript because I need to, not a fan of how it does things but I need it.
It's a thing that grew out of experience, as I mentioned - some people tried to shove it down my throat by talking of its superiority over everything else. Then I realized what the community is doing.
Every year a new cool Javascript framework/library comes out, and everyone - especially the newbies run towards them while making it a big fuss about it and try to push everyone to that as well.
Node is super fast, use it everywhere!
I don't see that happening at the PHP community, or anywhere else to be honest.
PHP is meant for the web, and it only does web and does it well. Javascript on the other hand... browser -> server -> desktop apps... I just hope it doesn't end up in embedded systems.
Well, that last bit is not true. You can use PHP for more than just Web.
As for the other part, well, you can call them noobies if it makes you feel better, but for someone who has been doing this for more than 20 years, all developers who complain about one framework or the other look like noobs. All frameworks have their pros and cons, and the best point made in your post is that the cons almost always come from people who don't know what they are doing, but that point hurts you when you start complaining about Node because well... do the math.
Again, I'm not complaining about Node. I'm complaining about the people who constantly keep pushing Node to others.
The difference lies in the fact that I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone about JavaScript. People who keep pushing JS everywhere do.
I believe JS does fine for client side, that's what it was meant for. But the community started trying to bring it to everything else too. And the newcomers somehow fall into the trap of blindly following any cool new framework that comes their way and they keep pushing it everywhere.
I'm sure more experienced developers like yourself understand that languages are just tools and some tools are more fit for some things better than other.
And yes, you can use PHP for other things too. But you wouldn't do it in production in your right state of mind.
Node works fine in other areas, too. It's got plenty of things I dislike and wouldn't be my first go-to in most cases, but implying that it doesn't belong in those areas is the same backwards thinking as "PHP is trash".
My point is, you have kind of a roundabout way of putting down the other guy in the same way that you've probably been put down, and most likely, neither really deserve it.
As for that production comment, I'm going to disagree with you again. Consider if you have a framework that includes a PHP library that is the center for managing certain entity types. That functionality may include file i/o, database ops, external API integrations, etc., now consider your CI needs to perform some manipulations in certain workflows, would it be smarter to rewrite that functionality in another language or use PHP and import the library you already have?