Does anyone genuinely think removing "master", "whitelist", "blacklist" is going to make the world a happier place, rather than just making substantial numbers of people think it's just a load of nonsense? Is getting rid of master/slave in software engineering going to resolve the problems of modern slavery, and wipe away any historic wrongs that were done to some people over millenia?
From humble beginnings at an MSP, I've adventured through life as a sysadmin, into an engineer, and finally landed as a developer focused on fixing problems with automation.
Does a random white developer from the UK really have any sway on the conversation on what makes a difference for black Americans? or a french white man making a post about renaming "master" in git?
They're bad analogies and can be seen as racially offensive. I think they're token gestures, however, to be renaming everything again (there was a wave of this a few years ago). GitHub still serves its ICE contract despite losing employees over it. MSFT and others still serve the US police agencies. Until things like that change, everything's still the same.
"Does a random white developer from the UK really have any sway on the conversation on what makes a difference for black Americans?"
Why are you concentrating on black Americans? Slavery has far deeper and wider history. Have you considered the serfdom in ex-Soviet countries? Why not?
It seems to me, whoever makes the most noise and acts most offended gets the power to force conventions on everyone. Not cool. As a skeptic, critical thinker and enthusiast of making decisions based on science, statistical and historic data, the reasoning present here offends me. But I do not expect any sympathy simply for taking offense. In fact it's irrelevant to the topic if I take offense, is it not? Maybe you can see where I'm going with this.
From humble beginnings at an MSP, I've adventured through life as a sysadmin, into an engineer, and finally landed as a developer focused on fixing problems with automation.
We seem to get to the core of the issue. Changing "master" and other "problematic" words is a kneejerk reaction to the outrage of the day. It will solve absolutely nothing of importance, certainly not racism or police brutality - which AFAIK was actually what the whole catalyst incident was. And I, for one, think we should as a community think more globally.
If it's a race issue, then the ones in the US do not carry over to other countries.
If it's a slavery issue, you have more on your hands to sort out than black slavery.
If it's police brutality issue, I have no idea how it even relates to this thread.
From humble beginnings at an MSP, I've adventured through life as a sysadmin, into an engineer, and finally landed as a developer focused on fixing problems with automation.
Changing "master" and other "problematic" words is a kneejerk reaction to the outrage of the day. It will solve absolutely nothing of importance, certainly not racism or police brutality - which AFAIK was actually what the whole catalyst incident was. And I, for one, think we should as a community think more globally.
I agree. I don't feel this change has any real effect.
It's not just about Americans though, is it? USA isn't the only country that had slavery. As I said elsewhere, slavery has a history going back over thousands of years, including substantial periods of same-race enslavement. There remain substantial areas of the world where people are enslaving others of the same race, including Europe where "modern slavery" is rife, so treating such an analogy, taken out of context, as racially offensive is a hijack of its historical meaning.
Do you also believe we need to rename male and female connectors? Not use the term "mate" in relation to joining parts together, since these can be taken as gender offensive?
USA is the only country that replaced slavery with racial segregation and Jim Crow laws, Cu Clux Clan (or however those fuckheads were named), gerrymandering as a strategy to devaluate their votes (when they actually got rights to vote) and a lot of other shit.
From humble beginnings at an MSP, I've adventured through life as a sysadmin, into an engineer, and finally landed as a developer focused on fixing problems with automation.
Yes, this issue IS just about Americans. You're being ignorant by thinking this is about generic slavery; look up "chattel slavery" and realize how much worse it was than any other form before it. The GitHub contract is not a separate issue. It is racism against South Americans who have been demonized by the president™ as "invaders" and other such language
Excuse me if I do come off as a little pushy, I merely want to offer a counterpoint to arguments I think I see flaws in. This one looks like the book definition of American exceptionalism - that issues there are inherently unique and of higher importance, and that global consciousness should prioritize fixing those. Not only is this untrue, you are marginalizing the histories and current issues of other nations. American race relations do not carry over to other countries. If git aims to be a global technology, then it makes no sense to implement changes based on the offense taken by a segment of population living in a culture space that is roughly 0.5% of github's userbase, country-wise.
"realize how much worse it was than any other form before it."
This is a very futile line of argumentation - oppression olympics, ie who had it worse. Do victims of deportation living in concentration camps score higher or lower in the slavery category? Why would it even matter?
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Does anyone genuinely think removing "master", "whitelist", "blacklist" is going to make the world a happier place, rather than just making substantial numbers of people think it's just a load of nonsense? Is getting rid of master/slave in software engineering going to resolve the problems of modern slavery, and wipe away any historic wrongs that were done to some people over millenia?
Does a random white developer from the UK really have any sway on the conversation on what makes a difference for black Americans? or a french white man making a post about renaming "master" in git?
They're bad analogies and can be seen as racially offensive. I think they're token gestures, however, to be renaming everything again (there was a wave of this a few years ago). GitHub still serves its ICE contract despite losing employees over it. MSFT and others still serve the US police agencies. Until things like that change, everything's still the same.
"Does a random white developer from the UK really have any sway on the conversation on what makes a difference for black Americans?"
Why are you concentrating on black Americans? Slavery has far deeper and wider history. Have you considered the serfdom in ex-Soviet countries? Why not?
It seems to me, whoever makes the most noise and acts most offended gets the power to force conventions on everyone. Not cool. As a skeptic, critical thinker and enthusiast of making decisions based on science, statistical and historic data, the reasoning present here offends me. But I do not expect any sympathy simply for taking offense. In fact it's irrelevant to the topic if I take offense, is it not? Maybe you can see where I'm going with this.
Because I'm an American and the protests started in the US about racism against black Americans. This isn't "generic slavery protesting"
We seem to get to the core of the issue. Changing "master" and other "problematic" words is a kneejerk reaction to the outrage of the day. It will solve absolutely nothing of importance, certainly not racism or police brutality - which AFAIK was actually what the whole catalyst incident was. And I, for one, think we should as a community think more globally.
If it's a race issue, then the ones in the US do not carry over to other countries.
If it's a slavery issue, you have more on your hands to sort out than black slavery.
If it's police brutality issue, I have no idea how it even relates to this thread.
I agree. I don't feel this change has any real effect.
It's not just about Americans though, is it? USA isn't the only country that had slavery. As I said elsewhere, slavery has a history going back over thousands of years, including substantial periods of same-race enslavement. There remain substantial areas of the world where people are enslaving others of the same race, including Europe where "modern slavery" is rife, so treating such an analogy, taken out of context, as racially offensive is a hijack of its historical meaning.
Do you also believe we need to rename male and female connectors? Not use the term "mate" in relation to joining parts together, since these can be taken as gender offensive?
Where does all this end?
As for GitHub and ICE, that's a separate issue.
USA is the only country that replaced slavery with racial segregation and Jim Crow laws, Cu Clux Clan (or however those fuckheads were named), gerrymandering as a strategy to devaluate their votes (when they actually got rights to vote) and a lot of other shit.
Uhmmm no.
Yes, this issue IS just about Americans. You're being ignorant by thinking this is about generic slavery; look up "chattel slavery" and realize how much worse it was than any other form before it. The GitHub contract is not a separate issue. It is racism against South Americans who have been demonized by the president™ as "invaders" and other such language
"Yes, this issue IS just about Americans."
Excuse me if I do come off as a little pushy, I merely want to offer a counterpoint to arguments I think I see flaws in. This one looks like the book definition of American exceptionalism - that issues there are inherently unique and of higher importance, and that global consciousness should prioritize fixing those. Not only is this untrue, you are marginalizing the histories and current issues of other nations. American race relations do not carry over to other countries. If git aims to be a global technology, then it makes no sense to implement changes based on the offense taken by a segment of population living in a culture space that is roughly 0.5% of github's userbase, country-wise.
"realize how much worse it was than any other form before it."
This is a very futile line of argumentation - oppression olympics, ie who had it worse. Do victims of deportation living in concentration camps score higher or lower in the slavery category? Why would it even matter?