re: Todo-MVP: Or 'Why You Shouldn't Use A Web Framework' - The Revenge VIEW POST

re: I think you've got some really good ideas about a few things, and you've also missed (or not yet come to see) the problems that frameworks solve. ...

Writing from scratch is reinventing the wheel.

If I want to correct one idea in this it's the idea that not using a framework means that I'll be reinventing the wheel. A lot of what you say about avoiding the duplication of effort applies to libraries. I like libraries. But why don't I like frameworks?

Use libraries so you're not 'reinventing the wheel' of HTTP message parsing. Maybe you'll use an ORM library to manage your database. Maybe you'll use a thin wrapper over SQL. But if you've abstracted the persistence layer correctly then you'll be able to change your mind depending on your needs and not the capability of the framework.


I agree that's true if you have the need to change things like that later. But in my experience, you have to go incredibly far down the road or have really extreme/specialized needs to not be satisfied with an off-the-shelf solution.

Your TODO-MVP has several good examples of how you can do some of these things with little code. I will posit an alternative - you can save yourself a ton of time by using a framework. You'll end up with more total code (maybe), but you'll also have more time to focus on other things.

You seem to be ignoring the time it can take to determine how a framework wants you to solve a given problem. We've spent considerable time on a CakePHP project trying to find the "right way" to solve a handful of problems which could have been solved with vanilla PHP in an hour.

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