DEV Community

Discussion on: Planning a Real-World Web Application & Key Considerations(Part 1: Project Management)

Collapse
 
gilblinov profile image
Gil Blinov

This flies in the face of agile and self organization.

Look, PM is important. Heck, I was a PM for most of my career, either as an addition to my tech role or as an exclusive role.
I can tell you from experience that this is not needed in a properly agile org. Most of them, of course, aren't.

You would be surprised what self organization can bring along. You drop all that toil and concentrate on value.

Collapse
 
lepinekong profile image
lepinekong • Edited

I've been PM during the "Waterfall" or "RUP" (IBM Rational Unified Process) era (though as I'm Deming specialist I was already practicing agile without the name since Scrum is from Sutherland himself said it used Deming's wheel), with agile era my role switched to Product Owner/Agile coach, but in practice they often expect me to be like the super PM in big corps. Except on small project of a few developers where you can practice canonical agile, in big corps and big projects it's near impossible notably due to politics: you'll have PM without the names, Directors etc... who will ask to be involved more than they should ;)

Collapse
 
mjraadi profile image
Mohammadjavad Raadi

Interesting, how would you define "a properly agile organization"?

Collapse
 
gilblinov profile image
Gil Blinov

That is a huge question. I recommend reading This article by Ron Jeffries.

It looks like your article is grounded in a contractor mindset. Correct me if I'm wrong here. Not only is the work required is being estimated before it begins (not agile) but you are also burdened with delivering on-time and on-budget according to someone else's estimates.
The call for a collaboration tool because each person is focused on his task is also telling of a lack of cross-functional team structure with co-location leading to a natural collaboration.

I'm not saying this to take anything from what you said. For any business that provides contractual work it is a good glimpse into how things usually work.
People who read it outside of the industry though, might take it at face value.
The article I provided shows that it does not HAVE to be that way.

We have enough problems with management dead set in their ways. Let's not ruin the new generation of developers. ;)

Thread Thread
 
mjraadi profile image
Mohammadjavad Raadi

Thanks for sharing your insights. You are right, I've always worked as a freelancer or a contractor with a very small team of developers. Agile development process seems to benefit everyone including client, project manager and developers.

Thread Thread
 
gilblinov profile image
Gil Blinov

Not finance though. It's hard for them to see unscoped and time limited work as viable.

Even though they do it with every new hire. 😉

Thread Thread
 
mjraadi profile image
Mohammadjavad Raadi

You know what! I really need to get into this. I wish I could be part of a developer team with agile software development process right now to get more experience in this regard. Are you aware of any open source community with the same methodology?

Thread Thread
 
gilblinov profile image
Gil Blinov

Let me get back to you about this. It's a bit complicated for an immediate reply.