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Discussion on: Planning a Real-World Web Application & Key Considerations(Part 1: Project Management)

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gilblinov profile image
Gil Blinov

This flies in the face of agile and self organization.

Look, PM is important. Heck, I was a PM for most of my career, either as an addition to my tech role or as an exclusive role.
I can tell you from experience that this is not needed in a properly agile org. Most of them, of course, aren't.

You would be surprised what self organization can bring along. You drop all that toil and concentrate on value.

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lepinekong profile image
lepinekong

I've been PM during the "Waterfall" or "RUP" (IBM Rational Unified Process) era (though as I'm Deming specialist I was already practicing agile without the name since Scrum is from Sutherland himself said it used Deming's wheel), with agile era my role switched to Product Owner/Agile coach, but in practice they often expect me to be like the super PM in big corps. Except on small project of a few developers where you can practice canonical agile, in big corps and big projects it's near impossible notably due to politics: you'll have PM without the names, Directors etc... who will ask to be involved more than they should ;)

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mjraadi profile image
Mohammadjavad Raadi Author

Interesting, how would you define "a properly agile organization"?

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gilblinov profile image
Gil Blinov

That is a huge question. I recommend reading This article by Ron Jeffries.

It looks like your article is grounded in a contractor mindset. Correct me if I'm wrong here. Not only is the work required is being estimated before it begins (not agile) but you are also burdened with delivering on-time and on-budget according to someone else's estimates.
The call for a collaboration tool because each person is focused on his task is also telling of a lack of cross-functional team structure with co-location leading to a natural collaboration.

I'm not saying this to take anything from what you said. For any business that provides contractual work it is a good glimpse into how things usually work.
People who read it outside of the industry though, might take it at face value.
The article I provided shows that it does not HAVE to be that way.

We have enough problems with management dead set in their ways. Let's not ruin the new generation of developers. ;)

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mjraadi profile image
Mohammadjavad Raadi Author

Thanks for sharing your insights. You are right, I've always worked as a freelancer or a contractor with a very small team of developers. Agile development process seems to benefit everyone including client, project manager and developers.

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gilblinov profile image
Gil Blinov

Not finance though. It's hard for them to see unscoped and time limited work as viable.

Even though they do it with every new hire. 😉

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mjraadi profile image
Mohammadjavad Raadi Author

You know what! I really need to get into this. I wish I could be part of a developer team with agile software development process right now to get more experience in this regard. Are you aware of any open source community with the same methodology?

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gilblinov profile image
Gil Blinov

Let me get back to you about this. It's a bit complicated for an immediate reply.