You are probably right. It is quite common to see people using whatever the latest Shiny New Thing is being blogged about and then having to deal with buggy behaviour, crashes, untested edge cases, and security flaws. I guess I'm "stuck" with my successful and profitable app that I don't have to completely re-test with every update or rebuild from scratch just to impress someone on the internet.
Yeah sure. I'm actually an advocate of just using the base tech though. The "better" method I was referring was writing javascript without Jquery. If you can't do that then what are you doing? Javascript isn't a "shiny new thing" btw... Didn't mean to offend you.
I thought you were talking about angular, vue, react, or any one of a dozen trending frameworks. I have had situations where either I didn't want to include jQuery or I couldn't due to certain technical restrictions. In those cases, writing raw Javascript is the only option. While I can do that if I need to, it is not a good idea to eschew low-cost and low-risk assistance without good reason. Sometimes, that is a hard decision to make, but not with jQuery vs. nothing.
I have to use frameworks everyday. So that I can get paid. I don't like them very much, but knowing how to use them pays well at the moment. I don't even like CSS preprocessors because they seem useless to me. (Just to be clear, I can and do use them, because work, I just don't like them.)
I've commented in other posts on Dev.to that
Business requirements ≠ trendy frameworks
Most (even at an enterprise level) web app requirements would not be too hard to meet with HTML, CSS and vanilla JS. I think frameworks (while amazing works of software engineering) are VERY overused right now.
"it is not a good idea to eschew low-cost and low-risk assistance without good reason"
Can you give me an example of how using Jquery vs writing modern JS without Jquery is compromising low-cost/low-risk assistance? I have yet to run into a situation that I needed Jquery for (other than business requirement where I had to put in a bootstrap datepicker that required Jquery). But even sanitizing forms/inputs with vanilla JS regex expressions seems pretty quick and easy to me. Jquery is literally nothing special, deep down it is just JS so what is it needed for?
I agree with you about the CSS preprocessors. I tried one once and was not impressed.
I think the difference is that I don't get paid. I have my own business. My revenue is direct from my end users. That is an anomaly these days. More importantly, it is a completely different mindset. I don't need to impress anyone with my resume. I don't need to impress clueless managers with buzzwords that they recognize, but don't understand. I don't have a development budget where I can pick and choose tools based on their cost rather than their value. What drives modern technology is almost entirely social. People want to impress with their buzzwords and the size of their budgets. The ideal, sweet spot is a set of frameworks that helps developers advance their careers with Shiny New Things and helps managers maintain a bloated budget to pay for it all. If you are one of the Big Boys, its all just free money after all.
But for me, I pick tools and technologies based entirely on value. It isn't that I'm "comfortable" with old tools or "uncomfortable" with new ones. If I can knock something out with Perl, XSL, XML, or Objective-C with a minimum of time and effort, why would I do something else? That is literally taking food off the table. If jQuery does it and I can hack it up in 5 minutes, why spend the time to roll my own? When I need to do Javascript, jQuery is one of those rare tools that makes problems go away.
It sounds like we have very similar mindsets. I personally make it a point to not use jquery because I want to be able to code whatever it does just as quickly with modern vanilla JS. But I'm also very intentionally pursuing being really, really good at JS. But that is very specific to what I do and suites my career as a "UI" developer well at the moment. Sounds like you are much more well rounded in your skill set than I am so makes sense to not invest extra time in learning bare bones es6 as a focus.
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You are probably right. It is quite common to see people using whatever the latest Shiny New Thing is being blogged about and then having to deal with buggy behaviour, crashes, untested edge cases, and security flaws. I guess I'm "stuck" with my successful and profitable app that I don't have to completely re-test with every update or rebuild from scratch just to impress someone on the internet.
Yeah sure. I'm actually an advocate of just using the base tech though. The "better" method I was referring was writing javascript without Jquery. If you can't do that then what are you doing? Javascript isn't a "shiny new thing" btw... Didn't mean to offend you.
I thought you were talking about angular, vue, react, or any one of a dozen trending frameworks. I have had situations where either I didn't want to include jQuery or I couldn't due to certain technical restrictions. In those cases, writing raw Javascript is the only option. While I can do that if I need to, it is not a good idea to eschew low-cost and low-risk assistance without good reason. Sometimes, that is a hard decision to make, but not with jQuery vs. nothing.
I have to use frameworks everyday. So that I can get paid. I don't like them very much, but knowing how to use them pays well at the moment. I don't even like CSS preprocessors because they seem useless to me. (Just to be clear, I can and do use them, because work, I just don't like them.)
I've commented in other posts on Dev.to that
Most (even at an enterprise level) web app requirements would not be too hard to meet with HTML, CSS and vanilla JS. I think frameworks (while amazing works of software engineering) are VERY overused right now.
Can you give me an example of how using Jquery vs writing modern JS without Jquery is compromising low-cost/low-risk assistance? I have yet to run into a situation that I needed Jquery for (other than business requirement where I had to put in a bootstrap datepicker that required Jquery). But even sanitizing forms/inputs with vanilla JS regex expressions seems pretty quick and easy to me. Jquery is literally nothing special, deep down it is just JS so what is it needed for?
I agree with you about the CSS preprocessors. I tried one once and was not impressed.
I think the difference is that I don't get paid. I have my own business. My revenue is direct from my end users. That is an anomaly these days. More importantly, it is a completely different mindset. I don't need to impress anyone with my resume. I don't need to impress clueless managers with buzzwords that they recognize, but don't understand. I don't have a development budget where I can pick and choose tools based on their cost rather than their value. What drives modern technology is almost entirely social. People want to impress with their buzzwords and the size of their budgets. The ideal, sweet spot is a set of frameworks that helps developers advance their careers with Shiny New Things and helps managers maintain a bloated budget to pay for it all. If you are one of the Big Boys, its all just free money after all.
But for me, I pick tools and technologies based entirely on value. It isn't that I'm "comfortable" with old tools or "uncomfortable" with new ones. If I can knock something out with Perl, XSL, XML, or Objective-C with a minimum of time and effort, why would I do something else? That is literally taking food off the table. If jQuery does it and I can hack it up in 5 minutes, why spend the time to roll my own? When I need to do Javascript, jQuery is one of those rare tools that makes problems go away.
It sounds like we have very similar mindsets. I personally make it a point to not use jquery because I want to be able to code whatever it does just as quickly with modern vanilla JS. But I'm also very intentionally pursuing being really, really good at JS. But that is very specific to what I do and suites my career as a "UI" developer well at the moment. Sounds like you are much more well rounded in your skill set than I am so makes sense to not invest extra time in learning bare bones es6 as a focus.