I like the simplicity of what you're encouraging. I agree it's best to avoid discussing salary if you can. However, I would avoid all-or-nothing responses when possible, especially so early in the candidacy.
I would try to balance "doing the best thing" with not worrying too much about "anchoring" when you are in the application stage, especially if it's causing you to miss out on interviews and opportunities that would have been valuable to you.
Practice and prepare for the conversation (try to avoid, ask for range, pick the high number, done!), and let what happens happen -- hopefully an interview.
The general recommendation of "never say the first number" is an oversimplification of anchoring. The first number does become an anchor, but it's more important that the anchor is a good first number... doesn't matter who says it first.
But anyway you're not negotiating until you have an offer, and by then you can anchor or re-anchor.
If you or anyone else wants to have a practice convo, let me know. It would be fun and educational for both of us.
One of the most salient features of our Tech Hiring culture is that there is so much bullshit. Everyone knows this. Each of us contributes his share. But we tend to take the situation for granted.
Q: What's about your salary expectation?
A: Salary expectations?
A: Mmmh, I'd rather not answer at that point.
Q: But I need a number to continue!
A: Does it have to be now? Because I'm stressed discussing that by phone when we barely know each other and you cannot know yet which can of value I can bring to the company.
Q: It's not the final number, it's not me, my software requires a first number or a range in order to continue. And I don't want to waste your time. If you ask for $500.000, I cannot offer you that.
A: Oh I see, no, I'm not one of those devs asking for $500.000.
A: Look, I know you want to be fair. You know the salaries people at your company have for this kind of position. I don't want to be paid more than everyone else. I don't want to be paid less than everyone else. Pick something in the middle, that will do for a first number.
Here I say nothing myself but I have a reasonable anchor.
What could go wrong?
If the recruiter insists that he doesn't want to be fair, or that he doesn't know the salaries at his company, then it's easy
please don't work with those guys.
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I like the simplicity of what you're encouraging. I agree it's best to avoid discussing salary if you can. However, I would avoid all-or-nothing responses when possible, especially so early in the candidacy.
I would try to balance "doing the best thing" with not worrying too much about "anchoring" when you are in the application stage, especially if it's causing you to miss out on interviews and opportunities that would have been valuable to you.
Practice and prepare for the conversation (try to avoid, ask for range, pick the high number, done!), and let what happens happen -- hopefully an interview.
The general recommendation of "never say the first number" is an oversimplification of anchoring. The first number does become an anchor, but it's more important that the anchor is a good first number... doesn't matter who says it first.
But anyway you're not negotiating until you have an offer, and by then you can anchor or re-anchor.
If you or anyone else wants to have a practice convo, let me know. It would be fun and educational for both of us.
All true here @candidateplanet
What about this?
Q: What's about your salary expectation?
A: Salary expectations?
A: Mmmh, I'd rather not answer at that point.
Q: But I need a number to continue!
A: Does it have to be now? Because I'm stressed discussing that by phone when we barely know each other and you cannot know yet which can of value I can bring to the company.
Q: It's not the final number, it's not me, my software requires a first number or a range in order to continue. And I don't want to waste your time. If you ask for $500.000, I cannot offer you that.
A: Oh I see, no, I'm not one of those devs asking for $500.000.
A: Look, I know you want to be fair. You know the salaries people at your company have for this kind of position. I don't want to be paid more than everyone else. I don't want to be paid less than everyone else. Pick something in the middle, that will do for a first number.
Here I say nothing myself but I have a reasonable anchor.
What could go wrong?
If the recruiter insists that he doesn't want to be fair, or that he doesn't know the salaries at his company, then it's easy
please don't work with those guys.