re: When PHP Framework Sucks Series: How not to shape your app in the shape of the framework VIEW POST


I don't get to call the shots always, but I'm beginning to realize I need to move away from framework hell. For instance, Laravel 5.7 suddenly decided to change the directory structure of asset files for no apparent reason. Same goes for Symfony 3/4, which was a major break. I'm going to experiment with doing a small personal project in Slim Framework and add components as needed. If all goes well, I'm going to create a cookie-cutter for my projects and say goodbye to frameworks in general.


Weird example there though, that change in Laravel 5.7 doesn't really affect anything whether you upgrade your older app or make a new one, why would that in particular set you on this path?


No, not this in particular, though it did make me vomit that there was so much chest-thumping and ceremony about this useless change. Being tied to a framework is very bad from a business perspective: imagine having built a large Laravel 4 app. Today a lot of their efforts would be going in "upgrading". Same for Symfony 3/4. I mean, I understand that framework authors realize their mistakes and correct them, but often these changes tend to be too expensive.

The problem, of course, is that thanks to excessive marketing, frameworks are embedded deep within our psyche. Consulting businesses must recommend them with glowing praise (because they help save time), job aspirants can feel good about adding a new (shallow) skill set, and everyone feels like there's on the top of the world.

This merits a full discussion of its own, but I don't have the energy for it. The bottom line is that after a point, a developer feels restricted by a framework and may want to structure things his way. If I ever get the freedom to do that, I'll avoid all of the full stack frameworks.


The kind of enthusiasm i see around Laravel kinda reminds me of how Apple products are thought of.

Maybe i don't see it, and Laravel is really freakin' good and i'm really dense..


I have been using an approx ~1000 line framework i've written, and for years haven't found a good reason to switch to anything else, every time i've looked.

There is always a lot to learn, which doesn't match up to the base language i've been working on for a decade. The syntax is always longer. There's always a requirement for more layers of abstraction than i'd like to deal with, for performance reasons and code comprehensibility reasons.

I've been trying to understand why frameworks are so great for many years. I'm convinced that they are just a fancy way to get everyone to code roughly the same in a language that gives you an ungodly amount of freedom.

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