Can someone who feels excluded with the context presented above please respond here? I really can't fathom how this is even an issue. I mean, I'm all for inclusivity, but I have never actually met someone who felt excluded because of these "words", just people rallying on their behalf.
A mind at work. Microsoft MVP && Passionate .NET dev lead && VP, Innovation and Products at SCT Software. Opinions here are mine. Trying to be all the human I can be with the time I have.
The post I link to lists a few articles and also my anecdotal experience of being thanked by people on separate occasions who noticed at different points. That told me that people likely notice.
My understanding is that it's generally uncomfortable for someone underrepresented to say they're uncomfortable.
The post speaks to the fact that this is a minor thing and not some world-changing thing. Just a small change to be more welcoming. If that's not enough to change a phrase, we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for considering
I'd say this is probably the best site for inclusivity in tech. StackOverflow is damn near militant about excluding anyone not in the inner circle, but you can find all sorts of genders and cultures here.
Though I say this as a ciswoman who exclusively uses "Hey guys" phrasing, so I'm not one to speak to if people care about such phrasings.
Saying folks instead of guys seems super forced in a "hello, fellow kids" kind of way, but switching to hey all doesn't seem like that much of a change if it actually does help someone somewhere feel included.
I agree dev.to is really welcoming, which is a special thing.
I usually just say 'Hi' or 'Hey', not sure we always need another word.
I do see the problem with hey guys though and think it's worth the little effort to fix - it's like the world is default male (he and guys are often used where gender is unknown or mixed), and this is a little way to change it not to be.
Saying folks instead of guys seems super forced in a "hello, fellow kids" kind of way, but switching to hey all doesn't seem like that much of a change if it actually does help someone somewhere feel included.
Reminds me of one of my earliest post where I was "called out" for using fellas which I edited to be inclusive enough.
But seriously, yes, this is probably the most embracing dev community I've been a part of, so I was quite baffled that this is actually an issue.
A mind at work. Microsoft MVP && Passionate .NET dev lead && VP, Innovation and Products at SCT Software. Opinions here are mine. Trying to be all the human I can be with the time I have.
For the record, I'm not saying "it's an issue here". I'm saying "this seems like a really inclusive community where I can likely find support for us to do even better, even in this one small way."
Because this is a good community, I feel people will say "cool", this could add value, rather than saying "meh we're good enough as-is".
I don't believe in calling people out. It's an experiment, and people are allowed to disagree. My post also makes an explicit point that people using these terms aren't bad people or toxic because they say "you guys".
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Can someone who feels excluded with the context presented above please respond here? I really can't fathom how this is even an issue. I mean, I'm all for inclusivity, but I have never actually met someone who felt excluded because of these "words", just people rallying on their behalf.
Thanks!
The post I link to lists a few articles and also my anecdotal experience of being thanked by people on separate occasions who noticed at different points. That told me that people likely notice.
My understanding is that it's generally uncomfortable for someone underrepresented to say they're uncomfortable.
The post speaks to the fact that this is a minor thing and not some world-changing thing. Just a small change to be more welcoming. If that's not enough to change a phrase, we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for considering
I guess that's fair enough.
I'd say this is probably the best site for inclusivity in tech. StackOverflow is damn near militant about excluding anyone not in the inner circle, but you can find all sorts of genders and cultures here.
Though I say this as a ciswoman who exclusively uses "Hey guys" phrasing, so I'm not one to speak to if people care about such phrasings.
Saying folks instead of guys seems super forced in a "hello, fellow kids" kind of way, but switching to hey all doesn't seem like that much of a change if it actually does help someone somewhere feel included.
I agree dev.to is really welcoming, which is a special thing.
I usually just say 'Hi' or 'Hey', not sure we always need another word.
I do see the problem with hey guys though and think it's worth the little effort to fix - it's like the world is default male (he and guys are often used where gender is unknown or mixed), and this is a little way to change it not to be.
Reminds me of one of my earliest post where I was "called out" for using fellas which I edited to be inclusive enough.
But seriously, yes, this is probably the most embracing dev community I've been a part of, so I was quite baffled that this is actually an issue.
For the record, I'm not saying "it's an issue here". I'm saying "this seems like a really inclusive community where I can likely find support for us to do even better, even in this one small way."
Because this is a good community, I feel people will say "cool", this could add value, rather than saying "meh we're good enough as-is".
I don't believe in calling people out. It's an experiment, and people are allowed to disagree. My post also makes an explicit point that people using these terms aren't bad people or toxic because they say "you guys".